[peachy]

Scoring: MP

P P 1♠ 2♥
4♠ ?

---

You are South with this hand. What is your call?

[Hanoi5]

5♥, but X also crossed my mind (if they were red...). Not sure what's going on, but I hope partner holds a better hand than opener.

[hanp]

I'll double. On a good day partner leads his doubleton spade.

I don't like to double with 4-card support but I have too much to pass and 5H is just too high.

[gnasher]

hanp, on Mar 17 2010, 09:28 PM, said:

I'll double. On a good day partner leads his doubleton spade.

I don't like to double with 4-card support but I have too much to pass and 5H is just too high.

Do you play this double as a penalties? If not, I think double is almost equivalent to bidding 5♥ - partner's not very likely to leave it in. Having said that, if he is going to pass the double we almost certainly do want to defend.

[jjbrr]

I'd double as well. If he pulls, at least we have trumps for him. If he sits, we got some D.

[Fluffy]

I can think of a subminimum 2♥ overcall with 2 red aces and a jack that produces slam, that is enough reason to me to raise.

But yeah, take out double is even better.

[Codo]

5 ♥

[peachy]

FYI - I held this hand.
My LHO was one of US top experts. When I asked his opinion (yes, I know it is like asking a doctor some medical question...without paying...) he said 5H is automatic in this auction. I also later asked one of my partners and he voted for 5H.

In answer to a questions I saw here, double here in our methods is penalty - *of course*, I might add, because I don't even understand how it could be takeout. Takeout to what? And if it is takeout, then we have sorely inadequate methods if we can never punish them.

[the hog]

"he said 5H is automatic in this auction."

Absolute rubbish! Are you sure this is an expert or is it a pseudo expert. Double, depending on pd agreement is definitely a call that desreves some merit.

[shyams]

When I saw the hand, I thought 5♥ would be a stand-out choice but after reading the comments, I am not sure any more. I do have some thoughts and would appreciate if someone feels like responding:
1. Would the 3rd seat opener be bidding a 4-card suit? I guess it is possible but not likely. I'd expect West to have 5-cards most of the time
2. Would East jump to 4♠ with fewer than 4 card support? Again, I would be surprised.
3. Though partner may have made a 5-card overcall, this forum frowns on 5-card overcalls at 2-level. i.e. good Norths will more often have a 6 card heart suit

My concern is that at MPs if you double, partner will most likely leave it in with some defense on the side. And we may not get enough compensation in 4♠x.
- We may not score many heart tricks (max 1?)
- We could probably score only 1 spade trick
- If we score many tricks in the side suits, we would have a strong chance of making 5♥
- Finally, though we all know that the 5-level belongs to the opponents, if I bid 5♥ either opponent may choose to bid 5♠

Am I overthinking this?

[nige1]

peachy, on Mar 17 2010, 01:27 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

P  P  1♠ 2♥
4♠ ?
You are South with this hand. What is your call?

---

IMO 5♥ = 10, _X = 8.
Agree with Shyams "if I bid 5♥ either opponent may choose to bid 5♠"

[Pict]

I don't see that anything can be automatic here at MP.

We don't know whether 4♠ is the normal contract at this point in the auction, so we don't know whether outscoring or matching a game is relevant.

I would bid 5♥ but without much confidence, and I suspect successful judgement in these high level decisions is one of the things that defines an expert.

[peachy]

The_Hog, on Mar 19 2010, 04:49 AM, said:

"he said 5H is automatic in this auction."

Absolute rubbish! Are you sure this is an expert or is it a pseudo expert. Double, depending on pd agreement is definitely a call that desreves some merit.

Not sure what you call rubbish, I suppose all of it... but perhaps you can elaborate

You doubt that he is an expert.
He has won 20 North American championships and more than 1000 regionals. He has competed internationally. He has over 53000 masterpoints.
This of course does not make him an expert in your eyes, right? Anyway, I respect his opinion more than yours, mine, or the rest of the forum here. You are free to have a different opinion, of course.

You doubt that I know whether he is an expert.
Yes, I recognize his name, have seen him before, and know about his success

You think he didn't say it? Or turn it around and make it a little more of a personal attack toward me: You think I lied??
You are on your own on this one, can't help you

Anyway, peace and friends, okay

This post has been edited by peachy: 2010-March-19, 11:51

[ArtK78]

I bid 5♥. It may or may not be the winning action on this hand, but it looks right to me. Should make 11 tricks opposite as little as x Axxxxx AKx xxx or some variant thereof. And I don't know that we are even beating 4♠, let along enough to compensate for our game.

[jdonn]

I double, 5♥ seems way too likely to go minus at mps, and you might catch your opponent speeding in 3rd seat for a big payday too.

[hanp]

gnasher, on Mar 17 2010, 04:25 PM, said:

Do you play this double as a penalties?

No, I play it shows values.

Quote

If not, I think double is almost equivalent to bidding 5♥ - partner's not very likely to leave it in.  Having said that, if he is going to pass the double we almost certainly do want to defend.

I think that partner will leave it in some of the time, especially when he has a doubleton spade.

[the hog]

peachy, on Mar 20 2010, 12:47 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Mar 19 2010, 04:49 AM, said:

"he said 5H is automatic in this auction."

Absolute rubbish! Are you sure this is an expert or is it a pseudo expert. Double, depending on pd agreement is definitely a call that desreves some merit.

Not sure what you call rubbish, I suppose all of it... but perhaps you can elaborate

You doubt that he is an expert.
He has won 20 North American championships and more than 1000 regionals. He has competed internationally. He has over 53000 masterpoints.
This of course does not make him an expert in your eyes, right? Anyway, I respect his opinion more than yours, mine, or the rest of the forum here. You are free to have a different opinion, of course.

You doubt that I know whether he is an expert.
Yes, I recognize his name, have seen him before, and know about his success

You think he didn't say it? Or turn it around and make it a little more of a personal attack toward me: You think I lied??
You are on your own on this one, can't help you

Anyway, peace and friends, okay

The absolute rubbish comment referred to the fact that he said a bid was "obvious". It is far from obvious Peachy. It might be obvious in his expert eyes and certainly not obvious in another's.

[MFA]

5♥. I'm closer to calling this automatic than to doubling.

[bftboy]

wouldn't be too surprised to find that we have only one ♠ trick on def. X is riskier than 5♥, so that's the call. who knows, maybe we'll get a chance to x 5 ♠.

[whereagles]

people call their bids "automatic" far too often.

I'd be quite undecided between dbl and 5♥. Prefer dbl, though.