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5 card support

#1 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 02:43

I guess Gnome doesn't want to post this hand from his Vanderbilt match so I will:

QJxxx, Axx, void, AJTxx

1♠ - pass - 2♣ - 2♦
?

2/1 GF setting.

Your call.
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#2 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 03:10

Did 2♣ show clubs, or might it be a 3442 shape?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#3 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 03:35

4♦
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#4 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 04:18

Phil, on Mar 18 2010, 03:43 AM, said:

I guess Gnome doesn't want to post this hand from his Vanderbilt match so I will: 2/1 GF setting.
QJxxx, Axx, void, AJTxx
1♠ - pass - 2♣ - 2♦
?
IMO 4♦ = 10, 3♣ = 9.
Agree with Gordon. 4♦ describes the main features of the hand in one bid, slightly exaggerating the high card strength but expressing the distributional power.
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#5 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 04:21

Gwnn could find old threads on this. 3♦ shows a splinter for clubs.
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#6 User is offline   ONEferBRID 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 07:12

jdonn, on Mar 18 2010, 05:21 AM, said:

Gwnn could find old threads on this. 3♦ shows a splinter for clubs.

??
4♦-jump over opp's 2♦ is standard for a splinter for Cl, but 3♦ just shows a strong hand and may still be looking for the proper strain.

Although, I'd be interested in looking at that old thread.
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#7 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 07:15

I don't remember any old threads about this particular auction, but I agree with jdonn and disagree with oneferbrid because with any hand with no clear direction you may just pass.
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#8 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 07:16

ONEferBRID, on Mar 18 2010, 01:12 PM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 18 2010, 05:21 AM, said:

Gwnn could find old threads on this. 3♦ shows a splinter for clubs.

??
4♦-jump over opp's 2♦ is standard for a splinter for Cl, but 3♦ just shows a strong hand and may still be looking for the proper strain.

Although, I'd be interested in looking at that old thread.

what do you think pass, double, 2♥, 2♠, 2NT, 3♣ show?
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#9 User is offline   ONEferBRID 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 07:25

Fluffy, on Mar 18 2010, 08:16 AM, said:

ONEferBRID, on Mar 18 2010, 01:12 PM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 18 2010, 05:21 AM, said:

Gwnn could find old threads on this. 3♦ shows a splinter for clubs.

??
4♦-jump over opp's 2♦ is standard for a splinter for Cl, but 3♦ just shows a strong hand and may still be looking for the proper strain.

Although, I'd be interested in looking at that old thread.

what do you think pass, double, 2♥, 2♠, 2NT, 3♣ show?

2C was 2/1 GF, so its obvious what they show....
Edit: 3D actually is a stop-ask ( 1st priority ) and not necessarily very strong for this 2/1 GF auction.
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#10 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 09:15

ok I'll rephrase my question:

what is the tpical hand for 3♦ for you?
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#11 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 10:13

jdonn, on Mar 18 2010, 05:21 AM, said:

Gwnn could find old threads on this. 3♦ shows a splinter for clubs.

Great idea - wish I had thought of it first. Actually I thought of it after Gnome gave me the hand...

Ideal, if that's the agreement :lol:
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#12 User is offline   ONEferBRID 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 10:55

I think I will have to eat crow on this one.

I looked in my "Splinter" file and found this reference to BBO around Sept 23, 2009.
(Unfortunately, I didn't record the name of the poster or title or forum of the thread ) :

Playing 2/1 GF:

1S - ( P ) - 2C! - ( 2H )
3H! = ??

I was thinking 3H! showed a stop-ask, but most here said it was a splinter for Cl.

Another expert ( on a different board ) said by agreement it could mean either:
    a) splinter for Cl ....OR
    b ) a self-splinter for Sp
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#13 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 10:57

now this made the search a whole lot easier :lol:

http://forums.bridge...showtopic=34408
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#14 User is offline   Echognome 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 11:16

If 3♦ is a splinter, then isn't 4♦ a void splinter?
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#15 User is offline   Echognome 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 11:17

Phil, on Mar 18 2010, 12:43 AM, said:

I guess Gnome doesn't want to post this hand from his Vanderbilt match

Just hadn't got around to it. Will post the other one.
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#16 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 12:21

PASS shows a stopper ask / directionless hand with extra values. Oh the joys of being in a force. Why do people insist on things so strongly when they are wrong without thinking them through?

4♦ shows whatever it would have shown if RHO had passed.

Edit: LOL even better, you insisted the same thing in the last thread then admitted you were wrong there too! Nice memory!
Edit2: Ok sorry I wouldn't have been quite so harsh if I noticed you had already eaten crow.
Edit3: It's the agreement now Phil!
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#17 User is offline   Echognome 

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Posted 2010-March-18, 12:38

jdonn, on Mar 18 2010, 10:21 AM, said:

4♦ shows whatever it would have shown if RHO had passed.

I think most would play 4♦ as a splinter if RHO passed. Whether it's a void splinter or could possibly have a singleton is really up to discussion. Regardless, if 3♦ is a splinter here, then 4♦ must be a void.

I personally think it should show the void anyway. With a 5=3=1=4 or a 5=2=1=5, wouldn't we just raise clubs and try to get to 3NT?
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