[1eyedjack]

hrothgar, on Jul 22 2004, 01:18 PM, said:

Playing "Animal Acol", I was dealer and picked up

3
AQT2
432
AQT42

From my perspective, I'd be faced with a near impossible rebid problem if I chose to open 1C and partner responded 1S

1. A 1NT opening would promise 15-17 HCP and suggest a doubleton spade
2. A reverse into Hearts in unthinkable
3. Rebidding clubs on a 5 card suit is pretty ugly

So, I decided to sidestep the problem by opening 1♥.  Sure enough, partner responded 1♠ and I was happily able to rebid 2♣.

And responder with 2xHearts and 3xClubs was happily able to put you back into 2H.

If 1NT opener shows 15-17 then you appear to be in range for a 1NT rebid. I would open 1C on this hand and rebid 1NT. Unlike Cascade I do not object to a singleton in responder's suit to rebid 1NT although I would rebid 1-suit in preference given the opportunity. (I would not rebid 2NT with a singleton, but then I would have sufficient values to take some other action with safety.)

Now, if you are playing a 12-14 1NT opener, so that 1NT rebid would have been 15-17, then I agree that this does become a nasty hand (although I would open 1C and rebid 2C rather than open 1H - the Club suit is not that ropey).

[whereagles]

Since when does

1D 1S
2D

show 6 cards? It can be done with 45 on the reds, without reverse strenght.

Anyway, I see the point of lying about distribution before strenght. It's usually better because it tends to keep the auction lower, and thus gives you a chance to catch up later. The other way around is not true. Usually, not always. Every hand has to be analyzed separately.

[Free]

Indeed, it all depends on the hand. Some you'll lie for shape, others for strength. Consider this example:

KJx-Kxxx-KJx-KJx

I think we all will downgrade this hand, at least by one point. If you play weak NT, I'm sure you'll open this 1NT rather than 1♣ (5 card Majors)! Here we 'lie' about strength, not shape.

[helene_t]

No, Free, that's card evaluation, not lying. 1NT is a perfectly descriptive bid.

[Cave_Draco]

One word that seems notable by its absence... "Partner"!

S/he is the chap sat opposite, as opposed to the opposition who are sat beside you,

Lying can lead to loss of partnership trust.
Admittedly, some hands don't lend themselves to an honest bid but, if you hold a post-mortem...

1) Will partner sympathise with your problem?
2) Will partner understand your solution?
3) Will partner "forgive" your lie?

If the answer to all three is "No" then you had better hope that partner is a Friend.

[mikestar]

Cave_Draco, on Jul 25 2004, 12:20 PM, said:

One word that seems notable by its absence... "Partner"!

S/he is the chap sat opposite, as opposed to the opposition who are sat beside you, 

Lying can lead to loss of partnership trust.
Admittedly, some hands don't lend themselves to an honest bid but, if you hold a post-mortem...

1) Will partner sympathise with your problem?
2) Will partner understand your solution?
3) Will partner "forgive" your lie?

If the answer to all three is "No" then you had better hope that partner is a Friend.

I agree with your philosophy, but you are taking the term over literally. In all systems, there are certain hands that cannot be descirbed with complete accuracy. So the question is how to misdiscribe your hand in the least harmful way.

But if I had this topic "The Misdiscriber's Code" no one would have posted a response.

Thye term "lying" is a eye-catching word that sticks in your brain in a way that "misdiscribing" does not.

[Cave_Draco]

Quote

you are taking the term over literally

Agreed, .
However, this is B&I string! I am blessed with an Intermediate partner who is a Friend.
We do argue but friends can,

I was just struck by the absence of the word "Partner"; I tried to correct an imbalance.