[MarceldB]

Hi (artificial) bidders,

xxxxx--------- non
Axxx-----------xxx
non------------AKQJxxxx
AKQx----------Jx

West as well as East opens the bidding. Do you reach the grand in both options in a proper way?
I would like to know -and please no affected/unreal sequences just for this hand -
how you should bid these in your "standard"-system.

I do not have a problem with this hand but the reason of this posting is that I want to learn from other/unknown to me solutions/methods.

Thanks,
Marcel

[whereagles]

East opens:
3NT 4D
4S 4NT
5H 6D

3NT gambling
4D = ask lenght
4S = 8 cards
4NT = spade ask
5H = spade void

West opens:
I don't have a clue!

[Chamaco]

MarceldB, on Jul 23 2004, 10:19 AM, said:

Hi (artificial) bidders,

xxxxx--------- non
Axxx-----------xxx
non------------AKQJxxxx
AKQx----------Jx

West as well as East opens the bidding. Do you reach the grand in both options in a proper way?
I would like to know -and please no affected/unreal sequences just for this hand -
how you should bid these in your "standard"-system.

I do not have a problem with this hand but the reason of this posting is that I want to learn from other/unknown to me solutions/methods.

Thanks,
Marcel

If west opens bidding becomes quite ugly in my system.

I'd use a Preccision 2D or 2H opener (whatever you use for 3-suiter short in diamonds; I hate opening 1M with a totally empty 5 bager).
But then east is likely to deevaluate his hand; what's more, it is cumbersome to find out where west's honors are located

[the hog]

3N 4D - 4D asks for shortness, not length of course!
4S 6D? I guess.

[whereagles]

If you use 4D as shortness ask, then, after 4S, you can bid 4NT to ask for lenght.

[the hog]

4N asks for an outside K if this is allowed, else you can play what you suggest, unless 4N happens to be a sign off - rare, but still

QJx
AKxx
xx
AKQx
You might want to play in 4N opp short H

[Free]

MOSCITO:

if west opens the bidding:
1♥ - 1♠ (4+♠, 9-15 HCP) - (relay, inv+)
2♣ - 2♦ (5440 with 5♠ or 5+♠&4+♦) - (relay)
2♥ - 2♠ (5440 with 5♠) - (relay)
3♣ - ??? (5-4-0-4)

After 3♣ you have to choose between RKC in any suit (followed by CAB's) or denial cuebids, but it get's you too high or the wrong information (2 keycards in ♥, is that the K or the A, or none?). From here on it's quite difficult, even to reach 6♦...

if east opens:
1♠ - 1NT (4+♦, 9-15 HCP, unbal) - (relay, 0+HCP)
2♦ - 2♥ (singlesuited ♦) - (relay)
2♠ - 2NT (shortage in ♠ OR 3-2-6-2 OR 2-3-6-2) - (relay)
3NT - ??? (0-3-7-3)

We can't show 8 card suits (unless perhaps with zooming, bidding 4♣). With a 0-3-7-3, grand slam is very far away, however if we would be able to show 8 card suits, after you hear a 0-3-8-2, west has a great hand. In this layout, based on slam points, we'll be in 6♦ cause we only miss 1 Ace or a King + a Queen.

With my f2f partner:

west opens: very hard to find it! we'll probably end up in 4♥ or so.

east opens:

2♣ - 2♦ (weak 44+M or 8-9 tricks any or 21-22 bal) - (waiting bid)
3♦ - 6♦ (8-9 tricks in ♦) - (4 tricks support)
pass

this isn't the ideal bidding ofcourse (tell it to my partner!!), but it's based pure on tricks. If opener has 2 small ♠s we're screwed... We don't open gambling with a void. Only solid 7+ card, no outside K/A, no void.

[luke warm]

with us -

east:
3nt : 4nt (11 trick slam try - opener bids 6m with 8 tricks else 5m)
6d

toughtest one is west:
2d : 2nt - mini roman : game force
3c : 6d - short diamonds : well of course
p - oh crap

don't see how the grand can be reached at all, and if west opens i think you do well to reach slam

[luis]

Viking Club:

If East opens:
1d - 1h
3n - 4c
5s - 7d

1h = natural or GF
3n = Solid diamonds
4c = shortage?
5s = spade void

If west opens I can't reach 7 :-)

Luis

[vang]

luis, on Jul 23 2004, 08:24 AM, said:

Viking Club:

If East opens:
1d - 1h
3n - 4c
5s - 7d

1h = natural or GF
3n = Solid diamonds
4c = shortage?
5s = spade void

uh, how did west counted 13 tricks here? i can see only 11 (7 solid diamonds plus 3 clubs plus heart ace).

uh, how did west counted 13 tricks here? i can see only 11 (7 solid diamonds plus 3 clubs plus heart ace).

[luis]

vang, on Jul 23 2004, 02:54 PM, said:

luis, on Jul 23 2004, 08:24 AM, said:

Viking Club:

If East opens:
1d - 1h
3n - 4c
5s - 7d

1h = natural or GF
3n = Solid diamonds
4c = shortage?
5s = spade void

uh, how did west counted 13 tricks here? i can see only 11 (7 solid diamonds plus 3 clubs plus heart ace).

uh, how did west counted 13 tricks here? i can see only 11 (7 solid diamonds plus 3 clubs plus heart ace).

True, probably 6d then from any position.

[inquiry]

luis, on Jul 23 2004, 10:57 AM, said:

vang, on Jul 23 2004, 02:54 PM, said:

luis, on Jul 23 2004, 08:24 AM, said:

Viking Club:

If East opens:
1d - 1h
3n - 4c
5s - 7d

1h = natural or GF
3n = Solid diamonds
4c = shortage?
5s = spade void

uh, how did west counted 13 tricks here? i can see only 11 (7 solid diamonds plus 3 clubs plus heart ace).

uh, how did west counted 13 tricks here? i can see only 11 (7 solid diamonds plus 3 clubs plus heart ace).

True, probably 6d then from any position.

I play similar... say EAST opens 3NT...

3NT - 4NT

4NT ask for extra legnth (Keycard is useless), and 4♦ instead of 3NT ask for shortness...

So..combine these...

3NT - 4D
4S - 4NT
5D - 5S
6C - 7D

4D = shortness?
4S = singleton or void in Spade
4N = legnth
5D = 1 extra (8 card suit)
5S = singleton or void
6C = void
7D

7D says Maybe partner has 0-1-8-4, maybe partenr has club J, maybe partner 0-2-8-3 and clubs 3-3, maybe partner can set up my long ♠ with four ruffs, or maybe there will be a ♠♣ squeeze. I don't know how to find the ♣J

Ben

[luke warm]

i don't think i could get to 7 even going ben's route, tho some of the bids are the same:

3nt : 4d - gambling : asks for stiff
5s : 6c - void : ace
6d

i just don't see how the grand is reached, unless east somehow counds 5 tricks in his hand.. then

3nt : 5nt - gambling : grand slam ask (if 8 tricks bid 7 else bid 6)
7d

[whereagles]

Bidding isn't an exact science.

The keycards here are extra lenght, spade void and the club jack. While the extra lenght and the void can be discovered, no system I know can find out about the CJ. Especially since it already takes 3 rounds of bidding to find out about the other two features.

[Antoine Fourrière]

If East opens, I proudly bash 5♦ and play there less proudly, but I'm sure it still is the right action. (Well, if I open 4N - does it show that type of hand? -, partner should try 6♦, but really, opening 5♦ usually hurts the opponents more than partner.)


If West opens, I use transfer rebids (except in clubs)
1♠ 2♦
2♥ 3♣
3♦ 5♦
6♦

3♣ : showing long diamonds (3♦ would be fourth suit)
3♦ : nonforcing
5♦ : to play, 4♦ would be nonforcing with a good seven-card suit
6♦ : tricks

Maybe 4♠ over 3♦ should be Exclusion Blackwood or simply void-showing, but it wouldn't work over 3N.

Since that treatment is unavailable in clubs, a direct jump to 3♣ shows a game-forcing club one-suiter, with or without much slam interest, 2♣ followed by 3♣ is nonforcing and 2♣ followed by 3♦ is fourth suit, but not a one-suiter.

[Cascade]

whereagles, on Jul 24 2004, 07:07 AM, said:

Bidding isn't an exact science.

The keycards here are extra lenght, spade void and the club jack. While the extra lenght and the void can be discovered, no system I know can find out about the CJ. Especially since it already takes 3 rounds of bidding to find out about the other two features.

This is exactly right.

Missing a slam or grand that requires a working Jack opposite AKQx is no big deal.

Of course it is nice if we bid some of these but we have to expect to miss more than we find.

[MarceldB]

Thanks for all your contributions, although - as I presumed but not hoped - non with a complete satisfied solution.
This is indeed a very difficult hand. Even 6D could be a problem to bid as you have admitted.

Well let's see then in a HUM:

W---------- E
xxxxx----- -
Axxx------ xxx
- ---------- AKQJxxxx
AKQx----- Jx

In case WEST opens the auction:

•Pass =13+
»1S= singleton/void spades
6-11p. 4441 up to 7330
5/6-10p. 8+card and an 1-suiter

•1NT=Relay
»3C= 5/5 H/C
or 8-card Diamonds and 3/2 or 3/1 in H/C v.v. in 9-card

•3D=relay
»4D= 32 or 23 in H/C and an 8-card Diamonds and 9-10 p.

•4S= Slam asking Bid diamonds
»5NT = 2 Aces/5 + Trump Queen + Trump Jack, no Jack of Hearts

•6C= Jack of clubs?
»6H = Yes (if no you can Pass 6D just in time!)

•Bingo: 7 Diamonds
»Pass
------------------------------------------------------------------

In case East opens the bidding:

-
»1C= 8-12 any singleton/void and a 4441 up to 7330
OR 7-11 any singleton/void and a 8+ 1-suiter

•1D=relay
»1S= same
etc., so symmetric completely

One difference because of the pointrange (11p = maximum, so a side Queen can be involved)

•4S= Slam asking Bid diamonds
»5S= 2 Aces/5 + Trump Queen
no side Queen H or C (so partner must have Jack of diamonds
for the max 10-11points)

•6C= Jack of Clubs?
»6H= yes

•7 Diamonds
»Pass
--------------

In case West does not give a relay (if you play originally: when a Major then relay=15/16+)

- »1C=8-12 any singleton/void and a 4441 up to 7330
OR 7-11 any singleton/void and a 8+ 1-suiter

•1S = natural or semi-natural (=3card), 0-14 points and forcing

»3H= any solid 7 carder with AKQ
any (semi)-solid 8+-carder with AK or better
all options with NO side value (K or Q)

•3S = Pass or correct (can be strong [12-14p.] too if you know partner does not pass!
You take a slightly risk, but you gain more bidding space)
»3NT= any void

•4D= forcing relay, asking for the void (4C= Pass or correct)
»4S= spade void

•4NT= which solid one?
»5S= 8 carder AKQJ
(not necessary to give further side-Jack info, because
there is just bidding space enough for partner to ask)

•6C= JC?
»6H=Yes

•7 Diamonds
»Pass



I admitt highly artificial and I do not understand why my partners are running away ;-)

Regards,
Marcel

For your info and for the sake of good order:
no gadgets, all part of a nearly elaborated HUM-system.
Not posted to boast with these sequences but to see if there are other/better possibilities or instruments which are worthwhile to practice, specially in a non-HUM.

[Free]

I think it's quite nice to start with strong pass, BUT, if you'd play against me you'll have to deal with intervention Lets see how you handle that