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forcing pass situation?

Poll: Is pass forcing? (29 member(s) have cast votes)

Is pass forcing?

  1. Yes (12 votes [41.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.38%

  2. No (15 votes [51.72%])

    Percentage of vote: 51.72%

  3. I don't know (2 votes [6.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.90%

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#21 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-March-17, 03:36

kgr, on Mar 16 2010, 06:20 PM, said:

Free, on Mar 16 2010, 05:45 PM, said:

kgr, on Mar 16 2010, 04:32 PM, said:

I think that I played this one against your team in the closed room.
1♣-(1♠)-DBL-(Pass)
2♥-(2♠)-3♥-...???
 
I'm not sure how this continued, but I think that North started with 1♠ (also not sure).

That's definitely not worth mentioning! ;)

I'm not sure about this bidding!! First verify how it did go, before killing them.
...Or were you playing NS at our table in this deal?

If you're not sure about who you played against, how the auction went, and if I was sitting North, then why do you bring this up? I'm not interested in what happened at another table. We already talked about this with our team mates after they ruined this deal for us. As I said, it's not worth mentioning...

What does interest me is what happened at my table. Me and my partner had a different view on the meaning of this pass, so it's important that we get a better understanding of this situation for the future.

Can we now get back to the discussion instead of lecturing me what to do with team mates?
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#22 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-March-17, 03:48

Partner's view was: I raised to game, we're V vs NV, so he'll have values. Pass is forcing (like it's forcing after an INV+ raise).

My view was: I immediately raised to 4♥, so it might be a distributional raise (which it was). Pass is not forcing. We defended 5♦.

As a consequence of my view, it would mean that if you have a normal GF raise based on values, I should always bid 3♠. This might give more information to opps as partner may start to cuebid (although we play frivolous 3NT), or give opps beter information if they have to sacrifice to 4♠.

This also means partner could safely underlead his ♥A to defeat the contract. Now he was confused because I passed his "forcing pass" and didn't give much thought to the lead and started ♥A.
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#23 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-March-17, 03:52

typical, when there is a missunderstanding on this matter, it is always the guy who bid not very strong vulnerable who thinks he is not in a forcing position and never the other way around.

I agree with your view Frederick.
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#24 User is offline   cherdanno 

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Posted 2010-March-17, 07:04

Free, on Mar 17 2010, 04:48 AM, said:

Partner's view was: I raised to game, we're V vs NV, so he'll have values. Pass is forcing (like it's forcing after an INV+ raise).

My view was: I immediately raised to 4♥, so it might be a distributional raise (which it was). Pass is not forcing. We defended 5♦.

As a consequence of my view, it would mean that if you have a normal GF raise based on values, I should always bid 3♠. This might give more information to opps as partner may start to cuebid (although we play frivolous 3NT), or give opps beter information if they have to sacrifice to 4♠.

This also means partner could safely underlead his ♥A to defeat the contract. Now he was confused because I passed his "forcing pass" and didn't give much thought to the lead and started ♥A.

I disagree with the "consequence" of your view, for many reasons. (They won't bid 4S very often on this auction anyway, if you bid 3♠ you are helping them judging to do so, same if 4♥ promises a distributional hand, partner's cuebid will help them with the lead (as he has to cater to a slam try), if you have a balanced raise you will be happy to double them anyway, and in any case partner can hardly have a hand worth bidding 5♥ even when 4♥ promises a distributional hand).

But most importantly, you should still think about the lead after you had a bidding misunderstanding!
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#25 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2010-March-17, 07:28

Pass is NF, we have no idea what type of hand partner holds to bid 4H.
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#26 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2010-March-17, 15:07

Free, on Mar 17 2010, 11:36 AM, said:

kgr, on Mar 16 2010, 06:20 PM, said:

Free, on Mar 16 2010, 05:45 PM, said:

kgr, on Mar 16 2010, 04:32 PM, said:

I think that I played this one against your team in the closed room.
1♣-(1♠)-DBL-(Pass)
2♥-(2♠)-3♥-...???
 
I'm not sure how this continued, but I think that North started with 1♠ (also not sure).

That's definitely not worth mentioning! <_<

I'm not sure about this bidding!! First verify how it did go, before killing them.
...Or were you playing NS at our table in this deal?

If you're not sure about who you played against, how the auction went, and if I was sitting North, then why do you bring this up? I'm not interested in what happened at another table. We already talked about this with our team mates after they ruined this deal for us. As I said, it's not worth mentioning...

What does interest me is what happened at my table. Me and my partner had a different view on the meaning of this pass, so it's important that we get a better understanding of this situation for the future.

Can we now get back to the discussion instead of lecturing me what to do with team mates?

Sorry about my joke. I was actually wondering if I played against you. Could have been interesting to get to know other BBF poster.
 
FWIW: I think it is forcing if you have the explicit agreement that this is forcing. (eg if you have the agreement that pass is forcing after you have bid a vuln game). If you don't have that agreement then it is not forcing. (Because 4H bidder can be weak).
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