[Free]

I was just wondering... If West bids 2♠ over 1♦*-p-2♥-p-p, won't he bid 2♠ over 1♦*-p-1NT-p-p??? What's the difference anyway?

[hrothgar]

Free, on Jul 21 2004, 05:26 PM, said:

I was just wondering... If West bids 2♠ over 1♦*-p-2♥-p-p, won't he bid 2♠ over 1♦*-p-1NT-p-p??? What's the difference anyway?

BIG difference balancing in a fit auction as opposed to a no-fit auction...

I balance fairly aggressively, but I am reticent to do so in non-fit auctions like 1D-1NT.

[hrothgar]

inquiry, on Jul 21 2004, 05:05 PM, said:

As an aside, congratulations to you and free for winning that abalucy event. Good to see you have starting playing moscito there again.

Thanks

Not sure how much MOSCITO had to do with the win, sadly. Free and I both made some decisions that seem very clear-cut and yielded ridiculous dividents:

Case in point: The auction starts

2N - 3C
3D - 3N

You hold

643
T85
T643
KT5

Whats your opening lead? I considered a low club lead automatic, while the field preferred a Diamond...

[luis]

hrothgar, on Jul 21 2004, 02:48 PM, said:

inquiry, on Jul 21 2004, 05:05 PM, said:

As an aside, congratulations to you and free for winning that abalucy event. Good to see you have starting playing moscito there again.

Thanks

Not sure how much MOSCITO had to do with the win, sadly. Free and I both made some decisions that seem very clear-cut and yielded ridiculous dividents:

Case in point: The auction starts

2N - 3C
3D - 3N

You hold

643
T85
T643
KT5

Whats your opening lead? I considered a low club lead automatic, while the field preferred a Diamond...

If you are going to lead a club the Ten is the right lead to unblock the suit.
I'd have lead my 2nd spade.

Luis

[mikestar]

With regard to 3 card raises of possible 4 card suits my standards are:

1. With a singleton, always
2. With 4-3-3-3, never
3. With a doubleton, use judgement. Factors favoring the raise:
a. good trumps
b. weak doubleton (or Ax); Kx, Qx, AQ etc. suggest NT
c. alternative bids have flaws.

For example after 1D-1H I would bid 2H with xx Axx Qxxxxx AK but would bid 2D with Qx xxx AKxxxx Ax.

[the hog]

Typical example from April Aust Bridge 2001 -
Described as absolute minimum raise.

Ax
Qxx
xxxx
xxxx

[helene_t]

Reminds me on an article by Tjali Tuwanukota a couple of years ago in Dutch magazine "Bridge". He plays a natural system in which a major suit 4-card is opened with 12-14 (semi)-.bal. Partner systematically raises with 3-card support. He also said that the main advantage was to make ballancing decisions difficult for the opps. But warned that you have to be good at playing in 4-3 fits. So it is not recomended for intermediate players. Like me. So I continue to play 5-card majors.

[hrothgar]

The_Hog, on Jul 22 2004, 10:05 AM, said:

Described as absolute minimum raise.

Ax
Qxx
xxxx
xxxx

Hi Ron

As I recall, the Australian Bridge series defined the 1D - 2H value raise as promising precisely 3 card support with ~ 7-11 HCP.

I believe that this example was chosen to illustrate strength requirements rather than illustrating a principle regarding shape.

[Trpltrbl]

Hmm, think this is more example of opps going insane.

Mike

[hrothgar]

For anyone who cares...

I just had the chance to talk with Paul Marston about the hand in question.
He prefers a 2♥ direct raise with 4-3-3-3 shape, believing that the negative inference that a 1NT response denies 3 hearts is too valuable to sacrifice. (Please note that this matches my recollection regarding his style)

With this said and done, he also said that this is more a matter of style than a codified part of the system...

[the hog]

Always thought Paul had some unsound ideas.


Just kidding Richard, though he would certainly be the only one advocating a raise on a 4333. Klinger, who now plays a similar system, certainly does not.

Ron

[hrothgar]

Klinger is playing something MOSCITOish?

I recall when he was advocating

5 card majors
5 card 1♦
Nebulous Club
and 17-20 NT

The scary thing is that i actually got convinced to try this as well...

[the hog]

Yes, believe it or not
Here is a quick summary of what he plays with Neill

Strong Club: 1C = art, F, 15-17 unsuitable for a major transfer, or 18+ any.

Weak Notrump: 1NT = (11)12-14 BAL

Suit openings with a major 1st/2nd: unBAL; 10-17 if 2 or 3 suited, 10-14 if 1 suited.

1D = 4+H. With 2/3 suits show H first, canapé or no (if open a suit).

1H = 4+S, not 4+H. Show S before m, canapé or no.

Suit openings with a major 3rd/4th:

Still transfers (same as 1st/2nd), still 10-17, but show longer/better major first;

jump rebid in a minor is canapé.

Suit openings with no major: 10-14 unBAL

1S = 4+D, not 4+M. Show D before C, canapé or no.

2C = 6+C, no 4x.

2D both majors: 5-9 (3rd: 5-11; 4th: 12-14, 5-5). 7-11 if 4432.
{Open 2NT with 65xx or optionally 5521, 2D with 44xx, 54xx, 5521, 5530 or 64xx}

2H/2S 5-card weak two (vul, often 2 suited, M+m):
2H = 5(+)H; 5-9 (3rd: 5-11; 4th: 12-14, 5-5)
2S = 5(+)S; 5-9 (3rd: 5-11; 4th: 12-14, 5-5)

2NT = 5-9, 55 in minors or majors. (3rd/4th: wide range of strength)

3NT = asking for (specific) aces.

I think he would probably play Power, but it really was too hard as the relays were not intuitive at all. Peter Gill was the only one who really mastered it and I think it drove him partly insane.

[hrothgar]

The_Hog, on Jul 27 2004, 02:38 AM, said:

I think he would probably play Power, but it really was too hard as the relays were not intuitive at all. Peter Gill was the only one who really mastered it and I think it drove him partly insane.

Power had to be the worst designed relay system I ever saw.
Worse yet, it was the FIRST relay system that I ever ran into and I didn't know any better...

Actually managed to learn most of it.

[the hog]

"Power had to be the worst designed relay system I ever saw."
I don't really agree with that. Certainly the relays were very unintuitive, BUT there were some excellent ideas. The Ultimate Club is worse, where you have to shift steps up and down all the time.


1D/H/S - 2C invit relay, 2D gfr
We had some fantastic results with the 2C relay eg
1M 2C 2D 2M making, rest of the field down 1 in 3

1D 5 card opening was a real winner, both at imps and matchpoints.

Low level rkcb was a theoretically very interesting idea, and sort of migrated into other relay systems, including Moscito.

The worst part by far was the 1C 2C auction - this was totally all over the place. This alone took me about 2 weeks to learn.

It took pd and I about 6 months of hard work to become totally comfortable with the relays with a LOT of help from Ron; we played it for about 1 year. The system has had quite a lot of international success - Klinger and Lilley, and Klinger and Gill.

[hrothgar]

I agree that the 2C Game invite/2D game force structure was cute, but not worth the lose of steps...

In general, the SYSTEM had some nice features, pity that Klinger didn't import a more reasonable relay structure