[fachiru]

OK, prd. hand was:
KQx-xxx-10xxx-AKx

At the table, prd. passed opp's 5♣ with the above hand.
Thinking prd. can't have much ♣ strength for his pass, I tried 5♦.
This was not a success, and it got hit by the 5♣ bidder who had:
xxx-AKQ-void-QJ........
Down 2

[Codo]

Why did you show us this hand? Partner made a ridiculous bid and we are supposed to belive that he holds such a hand?

[jdonn]

Codo, on Mar 5 2010, 02:35 AM, said:

Why did you show us this hand? Partner made a ridiculous bid and we are supposed to belive that he holds such a hand?

What was partner's ridiculous bid? I think you see the auction wrong, he opened 1♦ then passed over 5♣.

[Codo]

You think it is winning bridge to pass 5 club with AKX in clubs?

Okay, taste may differ. Or do you play double as take out here?

[jdonn]

I think it is winning bridge not to show extra values when I have a balanced 12 count. Are you going to double also if you are 4351 with 19? I think partner will want to know the difference.

[effervesce]

Meh. Agreements, etcetera etcetera.... Does double show extras, vs penalties, desire not to bid more, yada yada yada... Agree with X on this hand though - 5m is quite high given our shape, and 4441s dont play as well as they look, especially if we only have a 8 card fit.

[Codo]

jdonn, on Mar 5 2010, 05:06 PM, said:

I think it is winning bridge not to show extra values when I have a balanced 12 count. Are you going to double also if you are 4351 with 19? I think partner will want to know the difference.

Of course you can double just with 18+ HCPS and 4351 hands. But in this case you must put nearly all other hands besides freaks into pass.
I think that it is much more useful to give double the meaning: I like to defend. This may be based on HCPS or on flat distribution or whatever.
This is less accurate then your definition but makes the pass much better defined.

[MinorKid]

fachiru, on Mar 4 2010, 12:36 PM, said:

OK, prd. hand was:
KQx-xxx-10xxx-AKx

At the table, prd. passed opp's 5♣ with the above hand.
Thinking prd. can't have much ♣ strength for his pass, I tried 5♦.
This was not a success, and it got hit by the 5♣ bidder who had:
xxx-AKQ-void-QJ........
Down 2 

With no honors in opened suit he should be cautionous.
I would rather not open with KQx xxx Txxx AKx.
-----------------------------
Gee! Would the 5♣ advancer being down 3 ?

[jdonn]

Codo, on Mar 5 2010, 04:41 AM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 5 2010, 05:06 PM, said:

I think it is winning bridge not to show extra values when I have a balanced 12 count. Are you going to double also if you are 4351 with 19? I think partner will want to know the difference.

Of course you can double just with 18+ HCPS and 4351 hands. But in this case you must put nearly all other hands besides freaks into pass.
I think that it is much more useful to give double the meaning: I like to defend. This may be based on HCPS or on flat distribution or whatever.
This is less accurate then your definition but makes the pass much better defined.

No it doesn't. For you double = wants to defend, pass = doesn't want to defend. For me double = extra values (like 16+ not 18+), pass = minimum. I don't think we have proven either is better defined than the other. In any case what does it matter, if pass is better defined one way then double is better defined the other way.

Really all I object to is you calling partner's pass ridiculous. To me it's absolutely normal.

[pooltuna]

jdonn, on Mar 5 2010, 11:12 AM, said:

Codo, on Mar 5 2010, 04:41 AM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 5 2010, 05:06 PM, said:

I think it is winning bridge not to show extra values when I have a balanced 12 count. Are you going to double also if you are 4351 with 19? I think partner will want to know the difference.

Of course you can double just with 18+ HCPS and 4351 hands. But in this case you must put nearly all other hands besides freaks into pass.
I think that it is much more useful to give double the meaning: I like to defend. This may be based on HCPS or on flat distribution or whatever.
This is less accurate then your definition but makes the pass much better defined.

No it doesn't. For you double = wants to defend, pass = doesn't want to defend. For me double = extra values (like 16+ not 18+), pass = minimum. I don't think we have proven either is better defined than the other. In any case what does it matter, if pass is better defined one way then double is better defined the other way.

Really all I object to is you calling partner's pass ridiculous. To me it's absolutely normal.

to be clear, are we talking about the player who made the initial 1♦ bid? I would object to anyone saying he has to X and certainly would object to playing such (IMO ridiculous) agreement.

[MinorKid]

Codo, on Mar 5 2010, 04:41 AM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 5 2010, 05:06 PM, said:

I think it is winning bridge not to show extra values when I have a balanced 12 count. Are you going to double also if you are 4351 with 19? I think partner will want to know the difference.

Of course you can double just with 18+ HCPS and 4351 hands. But in this case you must put nearly all other hands besides freaks into pass.
I think that it is much more useful to give double the meaning: I like to defend. This may be based on HCPS or on flat distribution or whatever.
This is less accurate then your definition but makes the pass much better defined.

Double = Peanlty , pass = Cooperative ?
or
Double = Negative "How are your side suits?" , Pass = "It is up to you!"

[gnasher]

MinorKid, on Mar 5 2010, 06:29 PM, said:

Double = Peanlty , pass = Cooperative ?

Playing that, what does opener do when he has neither a penalty double nor a desire to cooperate?

[PhantomSac]

gnasher, on Mar 5 2010, 12:43 PM, said:

MinorKid, on Mar 5 2010, 06:29 PM, said:

Double = Peanlty , pass = Cooperative ?

Playing that, what does opener do when he has neither a penalty double nor a desire to cooperate?

quick pass ldo

[jjbrr]

stop pass alternatively

[MinorKid]

MinorKid, on Mar 5 2010, 12:29 PM, said:

Double = Peanlty , pass = Cooperative ?
or
Double = Negative "How are your side suits?" , Pass = "It is up to you!"

To make it simple. I would like to play the second one.
Double = "Make your decision depends on unbid suits", Pass = "Make your decision depends on bidded suits"

[whereagles]

Double. I'm taking the money (if there's any to take lol).

[MinorKid]

Against an expert's jump preempt here the doubled penalty you will get is usually 500, no matter what vulnerability.
...
But since we are red, i throught we could have earned more by bidding, for +600 or even happen to +1370.

[Codo]

jdonn, on Mar 6 2010, 01:12 AM, said:

No it doesn't. For you double = wants to defend, pass = doesn't want to defend. For me double = extra values (like 16+ not 18+), pass = minimum. I don't think we have proven either is better defined than the other. In any case what does it matter, if pass is better defined one way then double is better defined the other way.

Really all I object to is you calling partner's pass ridiculous. To me it's absolutely normal.

Real words of wisdom, (No, no irony this time).