[wank]

Scoring: IMP

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EW silient

1NT 15-17, 2S minor suit stayman, 3D 4+ of em, 3H shortage maybe only looking for right game, 3NT, end of

[rogerclee]

Agree with all the bids (IMO north is closer to moving than south).

[jjbrr]

Call me crazy, but I'd just open at the one level in my 6-card suit.

[jdonn]

Opening 1NT by north seems a little bit like operating to me but not too far off. But WTH not moving over 3♥! You have a 10 card fit and ace opposite the singleton! 100% north, I mean what could south have even done differently?

[MarkDean]

It is tough, I think these overloaded, could be choice of games or could be slammish auctions are very difficult.

I was going to say that I agree with North's 3NT, but when trying to consutruct hands where 3NT was good and 5D in danger, it was harder than I thought, so perhaps a move is in order.

[PhantomSac]

rogerclee, on Feb 28 2010, 10:19 PM, said:

Agree with all the bids (IMO north is closer to moving than south).

What?

edit: Sorry beginner/int forum. IMO Jdonn is right on the mark, when partner shows both minors and short hearts, north has a monster for diamonds. Not only 6 trumps, but a doubleton club is huge, and A A K is very nice. On top of that, if partner isnt 55 in the minors (which makes our hand HUGEEEEEE), they have 3 spades, in which case even our doubleton spade is working!

Think about some hands like:

Axx
x
Axxx
Kxxxx

This is only 11, albeit a very nice one, and 6D is very very good.

Alternatively partner might have something like xxx x AJxx KJxxx. This hand would bid this way, and 3N might go down on a bad spade split, while 5D is a near lock. Partner might even bid this way with Ax x QJxxx Kxxxx where 3N has no play on a spade lead, while 5D is cold.

Etc etc, I really think bidding 3N is a poor choice. The doubletons and lack of spade values and the 6th trump and the prime values all argue strongly for avoiding 3N, and moving towards slam at the same time.

[neilkaz]

jdonn, on Feb 28 2010, 09:31 PM, said:

Opening 1NT by north seems a little bit like operating to me but not too far off. But WTH not moving over 3♥! You have a 10 card fit and ace opposite the singleton! 100% north, I mean what could south have even done differently?

Agreed completely. North's hand is superb to try for slam, and it is seems unlikely for 5♦ to go off when 3NT makes if they decide to stop short of slam.

[jdonn]

Yes I was a bit brief but when jlall is saying the doubletons are so good there is an equivalent way to think about that. North know he can ruff any hearts after the ace in dummy. So having the third card in hearts instead of a black suit is like an extra winner. Just add the queen of clubs to the Axx x Axxx Kxxxx example and you will play a cold GRAND slam in 3NT (and yes partner will pass 3NT with that, having described his hand so well already). And that would be true without the queen of hearts or jack of spades.

I don't even feel the need to add IMO in this case. North bidding 3NT is just plain wrong.

[lmilne]

Even though I love opening 1NT with long minors etc (and long majors, bad hands, and a pile of other stuff.... ) the North hand is the wrong 14. Would like it a bit more at fav where you can make opponents pay for intervening and you are more likely to win the partscore. It certainly improves to a rock after 2S though.. 6 card support!

AQx opposite splinter is also good, pretty damn close to a try if not clearcut.

[wank]

MarkDean, on Feb 28 2010, 10:58 PM, said:

when trying to consutruct hands where 3NT was good and 5D in danger, it was harder than I thought, so perhaps a move is in order.

thanks for the replies. this was the key point imo.

[gwnn]

I think North got ashamed of his perfectly valid 1NT opening and was happy to get "off the hook" and in the "safe haven" of 3NT. That's a wrong way of thinking (I would know since I used to do it all the time and still do it sometimes ), his hand got a lot better and just a little bit worse.

[TylerE]

What't the old saying? If you open 1N on 14 you should probably accept an invite...

[pooltuna]

wank, on Feb 28 2010, 08:38 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

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EW silient

1NT 15-17, 2S minor suit stayman, 3D 4+ of em, 3H shortage maybe only looking for right game, 3NT, end of

North for misbidding his opening call. South for no longer trusting North's 1NT call to actually be in range.

[FrancesHinden]

jdonn, on Mar 1 2010, 03:31 AM, said:

Opening 1NT by north seems a little bit like operating to me but not too far off.

As a slight diversion from the original topic, I find it mildly interesting that there are comments about the 1NT opening bid.

In the English strong NT world, you will find maybe 3 times as many people opening that a strong NT as you would opening a 5332 with a 5-card major. We all think 6-card minors are normal, but while some people also like to open 1NT with a 5-card major it's by no means universal.

[vuroth]

I despise bidding notrump if I'm not 4333, 4432 or 5332. I understand a lot of experts do it, and maybe some day I'll work my way around to that point of view, but right now if my hand is best for a suit, that's where I want to start my bidding. "Natural", I think the grandparents all called it....

[the hog]

1NT is fine. Nth should bid 4D over the 3H shortness, Anyway, would an immediate 3H splinter not have worked out better?

[wank]

The_Hog, on Mar 7 2010, 01:39 AM, said:

1NT is fine. Nth should bid 4D over the 3H shortness, Anyway, would an immediate 3H splinter not have worked out better?

'an immediate 3H splinter' would have been natural and GF.

anyway, i don't see how that method is an advantage over our methods on this hand. quite the contrary: in my sequence, opener can cue over 3H, but playing 3H as a splinter, opener would need to bid 4D to set trumps, eating up space.

[helene_t]

Doesn't look like a great slam to me. OK it is odds on but there is plenty of scope for going down.

Anyway, I suppose North should bid 4♦ or something. After all he has six of them.

The 1NT opening is fine IMHO.