[Onedown]

This would apply to 2/1 or SAYC.

You Hold: QJx AKTxxxx Qx KQ - a soft 17

Opps dont interfere and in 1st seat you open 1H, Pard bids 1S...YOUR CALL?

I opted for 3Hs due to my support in spades...P now bids 4D..with nothing to cue and now to get to some spot..I bid 4H...Pard raises to 5H all float and down 4..

Pards hand was AT9xx void AKJTx xxx - P chewed me out of course as he reminded me my values were soft for my 17 and 2Hs is a better rebid due to my defunct H suit missing the J or Q.

[gwnn]

2NT ofc (non forcing).

3H is fine too. 2H is from another solar system.*

compare to

http://forums.bridge...topic=28139&hl=

(of course that was a stronger hand and this has 3 spades. I know I know I know. but I really wanted to link to an older thread).

* I suspect your partner was a Vogon actually.

[kenrexford]

The problem was in no agreement as to what 4♦ means, obviously. Arguing about the merits of 2♥ or 3♥ is silliness, missing the point.

[1eyedjack]

I would have read 4♦ as a cue bid agreeing Hearts. Maybe that is what he intended it to mean?

[Onedown]

kenrexford, on Feb 27 2010, 10:53 AM, said:

The problem was in no agreement as to what 4♦ means, obviously. Arguing about the merits of 2♥ or 3♥ is silliness, missing the point.

Obvioulsy there was no agreement. 4D he bid naturally, as I cannot consider any other call over my 3H bid, unless he ventures 3NT. Silly though with the 5-5 hand opposite my jump!

Whether arguing about 2H or 3H does have merit and the best bid for this hand is obviously 2NT foregoing your Qx of ds...then it goes 3D-3S and is up to pard if he wants to venture game or slam in spades...

[neilkaz]

I hope the OP can edit his hand to show 13 cards.

Anyhow, OP's pd should be wary of raising to 5 with a void.

[gwnn]

Well in this case it's 99% sure he has 6 hearts since it was described as a 'soft' hand. Also it's way more likely to add an extra x behind 3 others than say QJ tight.

[ONEferBRID]

I bet OP's Opener has six Hts, not 7:

thus: QJx AKTxxx Qx KQ - a soft 17

I'm waiting on Josh ( jdonn ) for one of his moments to make a "could be artificial" 3C-jump GF rebid by Opener:
1H - 1S
3C! - ??

I don't know what the follow-ups would be ( prior discussion needed) , but obviously there is much more room for Responder ( for lower level rebids ).

Even Peachy accepts this premise as noted in his/her reply to another recent thread here ( this forum, Feb 23,24,2010... scroll down the list or http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...ic=37560&st=0):

Is 3Hs Forcing, Pard Jumped the Fence...

Part of Peachy's reply ( excerpt ):
" .... Responder should not support clubs unless they are a mile long because opener might have had to manufacture a GF bid with bulky 3-card clubs. " ( of course here it is only a "bulky 2 cards Clubs " ).

[ggwhiz]

If you were inspired to anticipate pards 4 diamond bid MIGHT be natural. you could bid 4 spades and if it is a cue for hearts say sorry, I thought my QJ was the K, either worth it or I'm dyslexic.

If a casual partnership, pard should cut you some slack either way.

If a regular partnership, 1 lil ole disaster solves the proiblem forever more if you can discuss it calmly. Well worth the price, including if you can't have a calm post mortem, find a new partner. Likely the case as the 2 heart suggested re-bid is from a different planet as is the 5 heart raise!

Change your name to Fourdown?

[neilkaz]

gwnn, on Feb 27 2010, 11:29 AM, said:

Well in this case it's 99% sure he has 6 hearts since it was described as a 'soft' hand. Also it's way more likely to add an extra x behind 3 others than say QJ tight.

Well we agree...but it is nice when the OP counts his cards and posts the actual hand.

Anyhow, assuming 6♥ I am OK with the 3♥ rebid, but after 4♦ natural I bid 4♠

[aguahombre]

Even though 3H did not guarantee 3 card spade support, it is often the case --especially if 3NT was conventional showing some of the 1-6-3-3 hands with the same range.

so, 3S/3H would be a forcing probe for a different strain, with 5+spades, leaving 4D as cue for hearts. If those were the agreements, 4D would not have happened. This is not resulting, it is a suggestion --which happens for work for us.

[jdonn]

ONEferBRID, on Feb 27 2010, 01:04 PM, said:

I'm waiting on Josh ( jdonn ) for one of his moments to make a "could be artificial" 3C-jump GF rebid by Opener:
1H - 1S
3C! - ??

I know this will be a new concept to you, but I usually wait for a game forcing hand before I make a game forcing bid. In particular when the bid misdescribes my shape.

[peachy]

ONEferBRID, on Feb 27 2010, 01:04 PM, said:

Part of Peachy's reply ( excerpt ):
" .... Responder should not support clubs unless they are a mile long because opener might have had to manufacture a GF bid with bulky 3-card clubs. " ( of course here it is only a "bulky 2 cards Clubs " ).

This quote is from a thread where opener's GF bid was discussed. The OP hand here is not a GF hand so any comments or principles pertaining to opener's GF bids are irrelevant.

[pooltuna]

Onedown, on Feb 27 2010, 09:50 AM, said:

This would apply to 2/1 or SAYC.

You Hold: QJx AKTxxxx Qx KQ - a soft 17

Opps dont interfere and in 1st seat you open 1H, Pard bids 1S...YOUR CALL?

I opted for 3Hs due to my support in spades...P now bids 4D..with nothing to cue and now to get to some spot..I bid 4H...Pard raises to 5H all float and down 4..

Pards hand was AT9xx void AKJTx xxx - P chewed me out of course as he reminded me my values were soft for my 17 and 2Hs is a better rebid due to my defunct H suit missing the J or Q.

after your partner finished spewing I would tell him his brown eyes are blue and thus he must now be a quart or two low.