[mohitz]

Scoring: IMP

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(3♠) - p - (p) - X
4♠ - 5♦
5♥ - 5♠
6♣ - 6♦
6♥ all pass

4♠ presumably shows spade top control. 5♦ suggesting diamonds, 5♥ suggesting hearts.

[effervesce]

I'd blame the 3♠ opener. However, north's pass over 3♠ is awful. I'd bid 3NT with the north hand. Then south bids 4♦, north might possibly bid 4♥ after which south can keycard and bid the grand.

[gnasher]

effervesce, on Feb 27 2010, 12:20 PM, said:

I'd blame the 3♠ opener. However, north's pass over 3♠ is awful. I'd bid 3NT with the north hand. Then south bids 4♦, north might possibly bid 4♥ after which south can keycard and bid the grand.

Does 4♥ show a suit? And if so, what would South do if he didn't have heart support and wanted to play in 4NT?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

4S does certainly not show a spade control, it is either your only real big
force, or it showes two places to play.
I may have just bid hearts with the South hand, if you reasonable think,
that 4H is not enough, bid 5H.

5D should set trumps, that the partnership ends up playing hearts, cant be
anymore, ... unless YOU PLAY 4S as two places, so first discuss the meaning
of the cue.

But the 3S opening bid makes it hard to belive that you have AKJ in this suit,
and nothing wasted.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[PhantomSac]

Easy to construct some auctions but my take:

After 5S, north can bid 7H, certainly after 6D. Look at it this way, 5S is a grand slam try for hearts. North has the best possible hand, especially for a grand, that he can have in context of passing a 3S bid. 4 Keycards and a stiff etc. Anything more than this, north would have bid over 3S directly. So if partner is trying for 7, and you have your best possible hand, you should bid 7.

FWIW I would have overcalled 3N with the north hand, and then I have no idea how my auction would go. I can see getting to 6D, 6H, 7D, or 7H depending on my system and whether south insists on diamonds or tries for a heart fit. I just think the way your auction timed out, over 5S north should bid 7H.

[ONEferBRID]

Over 3major preempt:
4C! = clubs and other major, slammish
4D! = diamonds and other major, slammish
4oM = to play
DBL = single suit or cards

(3S) - 4C! - (p) - ??
                         4D! = cue for Cl
                         4S! = cue for Hts

then:
4NT( RKC for Hts) - 5D ( 1 key )
5S! ( hQ-ask ) - 5NT ( hQ and may have sK or no outside K's )
6C! ( K-ask ) - 7D ( dKQ etc trick source, and confirms 5NT included sK )
7H
( but seriously, folks.... I'd be happy just to get to 6H at the table )

[gnasher]

In the originally posted action, why did South bid 5♠? I think that has to show first-round control.

A grand-slam try without first-round spade control should bid 5NT. That will probably get a look of puzzlement followed by 6♣ or 6♦, which you convert to 6♥.

Going back a bit further, I'm not sure that North's 4♠ bid exists. His actual hand is impossible, because it's a 3NT bid. What sort of hand doesn't act over 3♠ but can make a slam try opposite a protective double?

[mohitz]

gnasher, on Feb 28 2010, 02:07 AM, said:

In the originally posted action, why did South bid 5♠? I think that has to show first-round control.

A grand-slam try without first-round spade control should bid 5NT. That will probably get a look of puzzlement followed by 6♣ or 6♦, which you convert to 6♥.

Going back a bit further, I'm not sure that North's 4♠ bid exists. His actual hand is impossible, because it's a 3NT bid. What sort of hand doesn't act over 3♠ but can make a slam try opposite a protective double?

I would have bid 3NT as well. But my partner chose to pass.

Here is what i thought. Given that he passed, I think he cannot be strong enough to have a 3 suited hand short in spades because that would obviously double.

So, 4S must be two places to play not strong enough to act directly. But 4NT is available for that. So, one could play that 4S is two places to play with first round spade control and 4NT without. I am not sure. I wouldn't have passed as North.

But on that assumption, South can bid 5S to show the King of spade?

[effervesce]

gnasher, on Feb 27 2010, 09:44 AM, said:

effervesce, on Feb 27 2010, 12:20 PM, said:

I'd blame the 3♠ opener. However, north's pass over 3♠ is awful. I'd bid 3NT with the north hand. Then south bids 4♦, north might possibly bid 4♥ after which south can keycard and bid the grand.

Does 4♥ show a suit? And if so, what would South do if he didn't have heart support and wanted to play in 4NT?

Oops forgot about 4NT being to play. Yeah you're right you can't keycard after that start.

[PhantomSac]

gnasher, on Feb 27 2010, 03:37 PM, said:

Going back a bit further, I'm not sure that North's 4♠ bid exists.  His actual hand is impossible, because it's a 3NT bid.  What sort of hand doesn't act over 3♠ but can make a slam try opposite a protective double?

The same hand without the SJ is quite reasonable to me. I mean tbh you are probably right it doesn't exist, but I think ti would be reasonable with Axx AKxx x Axxxx to pass and then try 4S. Ofc you could bid 3N to begin with, or just 4H the second time, but pass then 4S is reasonable imo.

5N rather than 5S is really unclear to me, in fact I don't agree with you, I think 5N should be reserved as a "pick a slam" move. Getting to 7 should have low priority over getting to the right suit, especially when no suit is agreed yet, and south has a very wide range of shapes, and north has a pretty wide range.

In that context, 5S agreeing hearts and trying for 7 while being control unspecific is pretty plausible to me. Obv I've never discussed this with my partners, but it's possible to me that this is what what south was thinking.

As I said earlier, whatever was happening, I think north should just say if partner is trying for 7 I have to have what he's looking for. Clearly 5S says at least that south is interested in 7. Everything is pretty ambiguous though since it's a possibly impossible and definitely improbable auction to ever have.