[xrato2004]

I'd like to know y opinion about 1NT in sandwich. Pros and Cons.

1)-15-18 pts keeping the usual meaning as the direct overcall? OR

2)-Takeout usual 5/5 in two other suits?

Ex (1C)-P-(1S)-1NT
this will mean that we have 5/5 in H and D, either being a passed hand or not

Thank you
gp

[OleBerg]

Always liking to oppose other, I played it as 4/5 in the unbids. Everybody claimed it was downright silly not to play it as 15-18, so I would like to test it.

Having done this for appr. ten years, I can't say I really feel that one is better than the other.

The missed the missed game, when they open 10 and reply on 4, looks a little silly, but the abilety to intervene also gives a little net-gain. (If done properly.)

All this is for IMP's only. I'd imagine the gain for 15-18 could be bigger in pairs, at least in some situations.

[Fluffy]

here we all play 1NT as 2 suiter, but the reason is, if they open and bid, you can be pretty sure they have at least 18 HCP between them.

Upon reading the forums I convinced my partner to switch to 16-18 NT overcalls on serious tournaments, but it didn't come up yet so can't tell.

[Free]

I play sandwich (showing 2 unbid suits with the lowest suit longer or significantly better).

If you play sandwich NT, you can fight some heavy part score battles, but sometimes opps play and you told them a lot of useful info. So it's pretty unclear what the net gain is exactly. I've played strong NT in the past, didn't get many good results and we didn't bid a single game. We got doubled for a few hundred however.
So I'm not convinced any method is better than the other

[aguahombre]

Also, there is a portion of players who feel that with at least three other ways to show varying amounts of the other two suits, the sandwich NT is not needed.

[Free]

aguahombre, on Feb 26 2010, 04:31 PM, said:

Also, there is a portion of players who feel that with at least three other ways to show varying amounts of the other two suits, the sandwich NT is not needed.

3? I only count 2: Dbl and the lowest cuebid. The highest cuebid should be natural. 2NT is for extreme shapes, so doesn't count imo

[Gerben42]

Given that you need to dbl on some stronger hands with only 4-3 distribution in the unbid suits, that doesn't really count either...

Only 1 left!

[aguahombre]

There are some players who don't agree with the above two statements. that doesn't mean those statements are not valid descriptions of how some people use the double, and the cue of the higher suit. It simply means that there are different views, such as that natural overcalls of the same suit are rare (and even more rarely successful) --and that strong hands unsuitable for a double or a notrump bid can pass a 1/1 auction.

Free and Gerben have valid points, but their points do not mean their way is the only way people bid.

[Apollo81]

Con: not as tasty as other kinds of sandwiches.

[jdonn]

Free, on Feb 26 2010, 10:32 AM, said:

aguahombre, on Feb 26 2010, 04:31 PM, said:

Also, there is a portion of players who feel that with at least three other ways to show varying amounts of the other two suits, the sandwich NT is not needed.

3? I only count 2: Dbl and the lowest cuebid. The highest cuebid should be natural. 2NT is for extreme shapes, so doesn't count imo

I would play the lowest cuebid as natural and still don't feel I need another way to show both suits. 2NT for 5-5 or longer, double for less shape than that. Wtp?

[kgr]

(1♣)-Pas-(1♦):
- Dbl = weak 4-4 (could be 4-3)
- 1NT = good 4-4
- 2♣= 5♥ + 4♠
- 2♦ = 4♥ + 5♠
 
(1♣)-Pas-(1♥/♠):
- Dbl = 4-4
- 1NT = preference for ♦
- 2♣= preference for major.
 
(1♦)-Pas-(1♥/♠) (and similar with only 2 options:
- Dbl = no preference or preference for lowest suit
- 1NT = preference for highest suit.
 
I would think that this is most effective when not vulnerable, against weak players that don't DBL enough, don't take advantage of the additional info the get, and are disturbed by the intervention and bid too high.
But maybe it is also useful at less strict conditions.

[awm]

Here's my non-mainstream method:

1X - Pass - 1Y:

Double = very sound takeout of 1Y, like a good 14+ hcp
1N = takeout for both unbids, about 8-14 (if only 4/4 then in the upper end)
2X and 2Y = both natural

1X - Pass - 1Y - Pass
1N/2X - Pass - Pass/2X/2Y:

Double = sound takeout of X, implies length in Y, frequently converted by partner

----------------

The idea here is that when we have the strong balanced hand, bidding 1NT natural is rather dangerous. If the opponents are not fooling around (i.e. have their values) it is easy to go for a fairly large number on this sequence. Thus I prefer to either double (takeout of Y) or pass planning to double later (takeout of X) on these hands. This also has the advantage that when opponents are fooling around, we can potentially penalize them rather than letting them off the hook with our 1NT overcall.

I also like to get in aggressively on competitive sequences holding both unbids, which is the incentive for the lighter 1NT action (which is also nice to distinguish from the more sound takeout actions).

Finally, in my experience when opponents are messing around on light high card points, usually one or both has some shape. Thus it will be more common that I have takeout distribution for one of their suits and want to communicate my values, rather than my having a strong hand with length in both of their suits and want to come in. Even if they are messing around on light values, and I have both of their suits and a big hand, it will often be the case that partner has length in an unbid suit (where are the unbid suits?) and thus would've overalled at the one-level if he had the 8-9 hcp or so that I need for game opposite my strong notrump.

[hanp]

awm, on Feb 26 2010, 01:51 PM, said:

Here's my non-mainstream method:

Surprise!

(by which I don't mean that your non-mainstream method is bad, I think it is important to have some call to show a good hand and you do. You may need to double on some 16-counts without 4-4 in the other two suits but I think that's ok.)

[Jlall]

If you play natural 1N, I'd recommend 16-19 not 15-18.

[OleBerg]

Apollo81, on Feb 26 2010, 06:13 PM, said:

Con: not as tasty as other kinds of sandwiches.

I can assure you, that some of the sandwiches I've been in, would not be considered tasty by many.

[ONEferBRID]

( 1A ) - p - ( 1B ) - 1NT = natural, 16-18,19

( 1A ) - p - ( 1B ) - 2A! = Micheals ( LHO's suit = lowest suit )

( 1A ) - p - ( 1B ) - 2B = natural ( RHO's suit = highest suit; " .. you are more likely to want to play in a long suit that is in front of you ( RHO) than behind you ( LHO ) " .

( 1A ) - p - ( 1B ) - p
( p ) - 1NT! = sandwich-- by a passed hand

[peachy]

I like Sandwich NT, both by PH and UPH - keep the takeout Dbl clean. 2NT is available for extreme hands while 1NT is occasionally 5-4/4-5. Cuebid of either of their suits is natural and much needed when we happen to have that hand.

This has worked well and I have not once missed the 15-18 NT overcall. If I have that much, and the opponents are not operating on air, my partner is near broke. Also, when the 15-18 hand passes, the opening side tends to stretch against "silent opponents" and/or misguesses in play. Fine by me:)

[peachy]

Jlall, on Feb 26 2010, 03:13 PM, said:

If you play natural 1N, I'd recommend 16-19 not 15-18.

Excellent point IMO.