[Jlall]

Kxx KJx QJ AKQJT

2N 3C
3D 3S*
4H* 5C
?

2N=20-21
3S=4S,5H
4H=weaker than bidding 4C

What now?

[wank]

xxxx AQxxx Axx x = claim at t1. mark me down for 5D

[Echognome]

I was also wondering whether 5♦ should be LTTC. If so, I think we need to bid it (especially as we have boxed our interest with 4♥ last round). If not, I guess I try to bid an in tempo 5♥. Good luck me.

[jdonn]

When given this problem I bid 5♦, didn't really think much of it. I might as well show the control partner has denied without forcing us higher. The jack of hearts and the club solidity also make this hand not as bad as it might appear at first glance.

[Fluffy]

partner denied a spade control, our hand isn't so awful after all, besides the fact that we might be off 2 aces, we have great trumps and a surprise.

Not an easy problem IMO, I know some people play that 5♦ now shows ♠ control and lack of ♦ control, that people have an easy bid here. But I don't play that.

I love wank's example wich seems kinda likelly, partner rates to have ♠Q also but doesn't change much.

I'd bid 5♦, I think partner will sing off if he only has 1 ace but move on otherwise.

[Jlall]

wank, on Feb 16 2010, 04:29 PM, said:

xxxx AQxxx Axx x = claim at t1. mark me down for 5D

They lead a diamond, and you claim? Alright...

[MFA]

wank, on Feb 16 2010, 11:29 PM, said:

xxxx AQxxx Axx x = claim at t1. mark me down for 5D

Claim rejected (♦ lead).

[MFA]

Hmm too slow.

Anyway, I bid 5♦ which is last train with a spade cuebid. I need specifically ♥AQ + ♦A for slam, so if partner signs off in 5♥ I would be pleased.

[Jlall]

People who bid 5D, are you not worried that partner will drive it with QJxx AQxxx Kxx x or similar, or are you just paying off?

[Fluffy]

yes worried, that's why I didn't bid 6 directly, so that partner has a chance of getting the blame for slam off 2 keycards

with QJxx AQxxx Kxx x he is missing ♠AK♥K♦A♣A for a total of 5 keycards, certainly he shouldn't bid slam with that.

[pooltuna]

Jlall, on Feb 16 2010, 04:01 PM, said:

Kxx KJx QJ AKQJT

2N 3C
3D 3S*
4H* 5C
?

2N=20-21
3S=4S,5H
4H=weaker than bidding 4C

What now?

you still don't have a ♦ control, right? 5♥. This assumes that 3♠ was smolen not sure why partner skipped 4♠ unless we are supposed to infer a ♠ control

[jdonn]

I pay off to 32 hcp missing two aces. Besides with that hand partner likely would have bid keycard himself.

Anyway in these situations I don't spend too much time trying to construct hands for partner, I just think about my hand in the context of where we are.

[kenrexford]

The funny thing is that I like my chances at 6♣, from partner's side, better than any other contract, even opposite a void.

At IMP scoring, I might pass. I kind of like tormenting partners.

[MarkDean]

I think 5♥ is clear - this hand is terrible in the context of the auction. Partner has shortness opposite half of our hand.

[Echognome]

MarkDean, on Feb 16 2010, 08:44 PM, said:

I think 5♥ is clear - this hand is terrible in the context of the auction. Partner has shortness opposite half of our hand.

The context of the auction involves us showing the weakest possible 2NT opening with 3 hearts and partner making a further slam try. Given that, how bad is our hand?

[PhantomSac]

Echognome, on Feb 16 2010, 11:56 PM, said:

MarkDean, on Feb 16 2010, 08:44 PM, said:

I think 5♥ is clear - this hand is terrible in the context of the auction.  Partner has shortness opposite half of our hand.

The context of the auction involves us showing the weakest possible 2NT opening with 3 hearts and partner making a further slam try. Given that, how bad is our hand?

Right.

We have already shown 20-21 balanced with exactly 3 hearts.

In context of that we already showed a hand that we don't love.

Now partner has bid 5C. With our "best" hands that contain a spade control, we would bid slam ourselves. So by not bidding slam, we deny our "best" bad 20-21 balanced with 3 hearts.

After that, our hand is not really that bad. We have a source of tricks. We have pretty good trumps. And most importantly we have the spade control that partner has denied.

My question when posting this was really should it be mandatory to bid 5D here with a spade control, or if we have a complete yarb with a spade control are we allowed to bid 5H? You could argue either way imo. Personally, I think if partner needs nothing but a spade control he should just bid slam himself, which would mean that the very worst hands with a spade control can bid 5H here.

But we are still splitting it very finely because we could have:

1) Bid 4C to begin with
2) Having bid 4H, bid 6H now
3) Having bid 4H, bid 5D now

And all this with an already narrow range, and a completely limited shape (3 trumps, balanced). Our hand is just not that terrible, so I think 5D is right regardless of whether you think 5H is ever a possible bid with the spade control.

[MarkDean]

Echognome, on Feb 16 2010, 09:56 PM, said:

MarkDean, on Feb 16 2010, 08:44 PM, said:

I think 5♥ is clear - this hand is terrible in the context of the auction.  Partner has shortness opposite half of our hand.

The context of the auction involves us showing the weakest possible 2NT opening with 3 hearts and partner making a further slam try. Given that, how bad is our hand?

In my opinion, it is still terrible.
I suppose you could make similar, worse hands, QJx QJx KJ AKQJx, but basically we have the least HCP possible in partner's three suits, including two jacks, and no aces. That is really bad.

[Echognome]

I guess my cup is half full.

[mike777]

Jlall, on Feb 16 2010, 04:01 PM, said:

Kxx KJx QJ AKQJT

2N 3C
3D 3S*
4H* 5C
?

2N=20-21
3S=4S,5H
4H=weaker than bidding 4C

What now?

non expert


I bid simple 3nt over 3s ya we may not have diamonds

[lmilne]

mike777, on Feb 17 2010, 01:13 AM, said:

Jlall, on Feb 16 2010, 04:01 PM, said:

Kxx KJx QJ AKQJT

2N 3C
3D 3S*
4H* 5C
?

2N=20-21
3S=4S,5H
4H=weaker than bidding 4C

What now?

non expert


I bid simple 3nt over 3s ya we may not have diamonds

How is ignoring your 8-card (+) major fit "simple"? Yeah, we might not have diamonds stopped, I guess... what?