[hanp]

Scoring: IMP

1C - 1H - 1S - 2H
3H - p - 4S all pass

---

Partner leads the diamond king, you try to play a high 3. The king wins and partner shifts to the heart 2, 1/3/5. How do you defend?

1S showed 5, 3H was alerted as a spade raise.

[MFA]

Declarer is most likely the one with short club, since AK + a useful singleton should be enough for a good raise instead of 2♥.

Obviously different defences can work. If I play ♥♥♦ and declarer is 5-5, he might claim right there if his trumps are good enough, where I could have returned a trump to cut down his tricks.

If declarer is 6-4 then ♥♥♦ will get him into trouble if partner has the ♦J and as little as ♠Txx or better. And then forcing with a diamond will be the only defence. I try that.

[MFA]

It would be relevant to inquire if they play weak jump shifts to 2♠, and if so what range they use.

[PFormaini]

Partner would undoubtedly have led a singleton Club if he has Diamonds under control AND thought he might use my Heart as an entry.

Since I control the 4th round of clubs under almost any scenario, I force DUMMY with another round of Diamonds. As little s K-x-x of Spades will rule out declarer's being able to utilize his club suit for discards.

And if partner has K-J-x, it leads to an automatic set no matter what.

[matmat]

blah. removed useless post.

[PFormaini]

matmat, on Feb 21 2010, 06:12 PM, said:

heh
i'm bad at this game
but i try to give my p a club ruff, maybe cashing a second heart first

A lot depends on WHICH HEART partner led to us.

And whether his diamond lead CONFIRMED A-K or DENIED the Ace.

If partner wants to ruff a club, they should have led a diamond that DENIED the other honor - and then led a fairly HIGH heart (to discourage a heart return).

That pretty much shrieks for a club ruff.

But we really don;t have enough information to know how partner wants to direct the defense. (If he has 4 spades, we definitely want to continue the forcing game.)

[gnasher]

MFA, on Feb 21 2010, 11:30 PM, said:

If declarer is 6-4 then ♥♥♦ will get him into trouble if partner has the ♦J and as little as ♠Txx or better. And then forcing with a diamond will be the only defence. I try that.

If declarer is 6241 with ♠K, and I play ♥♥♦, he has ten tricks - seven trumps and three clubs. He has a heart ruff as entry back to hand after cashing ♠AQ.

If I play a diamond without cashing the second heart, he throws a heart on a club, ruffs a heart, ruffs a diamond, cashes ♠A, and plays ♣J throwing his last diamond.

To beat it, I have to play ♥♥♣. Declarer can't get all three clubs as well as a diamond ruff. If he tries for two clubs and two diamond ruffs, ♠9 in partner's hand will be sufficient.

[PFormaini]

"If declarer is 6241 with ♠K..........

To beat it, I have to play ♥♥♣. Declarer can't get all three clubs as well as a diamond ruff. If he tries for two clubs and two diamond ruffs, ♠9 in partner's hand will be sufficient.
"
Why can't declarer merely win the club J in dummy, ruff a small club in hand (establishing dummy's suit), the pull trumps in 3 rounds ending in dummy, and claim?

[MFA]

gnasher, on Feb 22 2010, 01:27 AM, said:

MFA, on Feb 21 2010, 11:30 PM, said:

If declarer is 6-4 then ♥♥♦ will get him into trouble if partner has the ♦J and as little as ♠Txx or better. And then forcing with a diamond will be the only defence. I try that.

If declarer is 6241 with ♠K, and I play ♥♥♦, he has ten tricks - seven trumps and three clubs. He has a heart ruff as entry back to hand after cashing ♠AQ.

If I play a diamond without cashing the second heart, he throws a heart on a club, ruffs a heart, ruffs a diamond, cashes ♠A, and plays ♣J throwing his last diamond.

To beat it, I have to play ♥♥♣. Declarer can't get all three clubs as well as a diamond ruff. If he tries for two clubs and two diamond ruffs, ♠9 in partner's hand will be sufficient.

If we force him in diamonds it won't be obvious to draw trumps and rely on three club tricks. It will be tempting to try for a second diamond ruff, and then he is in trouble.
Playing a club doesn't work, as it is being said, declarer will establish the suit. He won't get that wrong.

[gnasher]

Good point. Maybe we can't beat it legitimately when he's 6-4 (though I agree that after the forcing defence he might still go wrong).

Playing a club does beat it when he has something like KJ10xx xx QJxxx x.

[Fluffy]

being a problem returning a club at trick 4 must be the answer. The problem is how many would just play 3 heart rounds at the table .

[MFA]

gnasher, on Feb 22 2010, 02:04 AM, said:

Good point. Maybe we can't beat it legitimately when he's 6-4 (though I agree that after the forcing defence he might still go wrong).

Playing a club does beat it when he has something like KJ10xx xx QJxxx x.

I think we need a tad more (♠T). Declarer can take two club tricks, ruff a heart, trump finesse diamonds, ruff a club high, cash a diamond. 1♦+2♣+7♠.

[hanp]

gnasher, on Feb 21 2010, 07:04 PM, said:

Good point. Maybe we can't beat it legitimately when he's 6-4 (though I agree that after the forcing defence he might still go wrong).

Playing a club does beat it when he has something like KJ10xx xx QJxxx x.

Close enough, declarer had KJ10xx xx QJxxx Q.

[jukmoi]

Though hand. Even a spade return after the second heart could be right if declarer has ♠KJ109x ♥xx ♦Qxxxx ♣x. Otherwise he scores 2♣ tricks and cross-ruffs 8 tricks. This is a bit double-dummish though.

[MFA]

hanp, on Feb 22 2010, 10:01 AM, said:

gnasher, on Feb 21 2010, 07:04 PM, said:

Good point.  Maybe we can't beat it legitimately when he's 6-4 (though I agree that after the forcing defence he might still go wrong).

Playing a club does beat it when he has something like KJ10xx xx QJxxx x.

Close enough, declarer had KJ10xx xx QJxxx Q.

So there was no defense after the lead?! Ok declarer might go wrong but a little unlikely.

[Jlall]

MFA, on Feb 22 2010, 05:58 AM, said:

hanp, on Feb 22 2010, 10:01 AM, said:

gnasher, on Feb 21 2010, 07:04 PM, said:

Good point.  Maybe we can't beat it legitimately when he's 6-4 (though I agree that after the forcing defence he might still go wrong).

Playing a club does beat it when he has something like KJ10xx xx QJxxx x.

Close enough, declarer had KJ10xx xx QJxxx Q.

So there was no defense after the lead?! Ok declarer might go wrong but a little unlikely.

Yeah I don't think declarer will go wrong

[jukmoi]

MFA, on Feb 22 2010, 05:58 AM, said:

hanp, on Feb 22 2010, 10:01 AM, said:

gnasher, on Feb 21 2010, 07:04 PM, said:

Good point.  Maybe we can't beat it legitimately when he's 6-4 (though I agree that after the forcing defence he might still go wrong).

Playing a club does beat it when he has something like KJ10xx xx QJxxx x.

Close enough, declarer had KJ10xx xx QJxxx Q.

So there was no defense after the lead?! Ok declarer might go wrong but a little unlikely.

After ♦ lead and two rounds of ♥ south plays a ♣. It goes ♣ Q, ♦Q (covered and ruffed), ♥ ruff, ♦ J, ♦ ruff, ♠Q, ♣A. Now declarer is stuck in dummy and North will score one trick with his ♠9xxx by trump promotion. So one down?

Not really since declarer can ruff the second ♣ low and ruff the winning diamond (as north underruffs) and claim with his ♠KJ10.

This post has been edited by jukmoi: 2010-February-22, 07:25

[hanp]

I only know what happened at two tables, declarer went wrong after both a heart return and a club return! Perhaps shows something about the strength of the field.

[MFA]

jukmoi, on Feb 22 2010, 01:40 PM, said:

MFA, on Feb 22 2010, 05:58 AM, said:

hanp, on Feb 22 2010, 10:01 AM, said:

gnasher, on Feb 21 2010, 07:04 PM, said:

Good point.  Maybe we can't beat it legitimately when he's 6-4 (though I agree that after the forcing defence he might still go wrong).

Playing a club does beat it when he has something like KJ10xx xx QJxxx x.

Close enough, declarer had KJ10xx xx QJxxx Q.

So there was no defense after the lead?! Ok declarer might go wrong but a little unlikely.

After ♦ lead and two rounds of ♥ south plays a ♣. It goes ♣ Q, ♦Q (covered and ruffed), ♥ ruff, ♦ J, ♦ ruff, ♠Q, ♣A. Now declarer is stuck in dummy and North will score one trick with his ♠9xxx by trump promotion. So one down?

Not really since declarer can ruff the second ♣ low and ruff the winning diamond (as north underruffs) and claim with his ♠KJ10.

You are not getting right track on declarer's low trumps. If he ruffs a heart in hand (low) and draws one round of trumps with a big one in dummy, he has only KJT left for three sure tricks.

[bid_em_up]

PFormaini, on Feb 21 2010, 05:56 PM, said:

Partner would undoubtedly have led a singleton Club if he has Diamonds under control AND thought he might use my Heart as an entry.

Since I control the 4th round of clubs under almost any scenario, I force DUMMY with another round of Diamonds. As little s K-x-x of Spades will rule out declarer's being able to utilize his club suit for discards.

And if partner has K-J-x, it leads to an automatic set no matter what.

So, what you're saying is that with nothing in clubs, nothing in diamonds, and nothing in hearts, we are also going to find declarer with nothing in spades?

Yea, in your dreams.