[Chamaco]

Scoring: MP

Opps silent
1C*:1NT**
2H***:2NT****
?

---

You deal and pick up this hand.
1C* = 16+, Precision
1NT**= 8-13 balanced (may have a stiff honor, may have a bad minor 5 bagger)
2H***= asks for support in hearts
2NT****= minimum range (8-10), support (at least xxx/Hx, where H = AKQ)

At this point your system allows the following to invesrtigate further for a possible slam:

- new suit is Control Asking bid to find out 3rd round control [xx or Qxx(x)], 2nd [x/kx(x)], 1st round [void/A(x)]control, or AK(x).
- rebidding hearts asks for the quality of support
- 4NT is roman key card blackwood.
- 4H is signoff

What choice is best ?

[mikestar]

The only hands that yeild an acceptable play for slam and have 10 or fewer HCP have HA, and either CA or CKQ. The miracle CAKQ also works.

I'm tempted to simply sign off.

For alternatives, I need more info. What is the best trump support partner could have for this sequence and what are his possible responses to 3H? What is the response scale to 3C? Can I ask in clubs after asking in hearts?

If I can't get the necessary info below game, I definitely sign off in 4H. There is no safety at the five level for this hand -- in fact give partner the Devil's miracle hand of SKQJ HJ DJ and you haven't even got a prayer for 4H!

[Chamaco]

mikestar, on Jul 18 2004, 02:34 PM, said:

What is the best trump support partner could have for this sequence and what are his possible responses to 3H?

What is the response scale to 3C?

Can I ask in clubs after asking in hearts?

1) worse trump support is xxx or Hx. Best is undefined. Can be found by either TAB repeat or RKCB.

2) steps responses to 3C are, in order:

• no control (xxx or worse)
  
• 3rd round control: xx or Qx(x...)
  
• 2nd round control: x or Kx(x...)
  
• first round control: void or A(x...)
  
• AK(x...)

3) can't ask clubs after hearts

[inquiry]

Hi, there is a third possibility,

You can ask in spades to discover how much is wasted. If parnter says he has second round control, maybe you should soft pedal the hand. If he has no contol (3NT), glory be.. you should be zooming.

Second you might want to wiggle a little bit hiere, and have 2NT ask about quiality of trump support to save bidding room. This allows you to use 3♥ as a general slam try where asking and telling is not so important (opposite a balanced hand, asking and telling, however, is fine).

I guess there is just enough room for partner to hold ♥A and ♣AKQ (8=13 hcp), so you got to make a try here. I guess i would ask in ♣, since opposite even xxx in hearts you have a play for one loser in the suit, but not opposite xxx in clubs. :-)

[Chamaco]

inquiry, on Jul 18 2004, 05:34 PM, said:

Second you might want to wiggle a little bit hiere, and have 2NT ask about quiality of trump support to save bidding room.

I guess there is just enough room for partner to hold ♥A and ♣AKQ (8=13 hcp), so you got to make a try here.

2NT is not available because pard bid 2NT

2NT by pard also defines that he has some support AND is in the lower range, 8-10, so he cannot have a holding with ♥A and ♣AKQ.

[inquiry]

Chamaco, on Jul 18 2004, 01:38 PM, said:

inquiry, on Jul 18 2004, 05:34 PM, said:

Second you might want to wiggle a little bit hiere, and have 2NT ask about quiality of trump support to save bidding room.

I guess there is just enough room for partner to hold ♥A and ♣AKQ (8=13 hcp), so you got to make a try here.

2NT is not available because pard bid 2NT

2NT by pard also defines that he has some support AND is in the lower range, 8-10, so he cannot have a holding with ♥A and ♣AKQ.

whoops... ok, not paying enough attention, sorry.

Ok. 3♣ and then a club re-ask for additional controls.

[Cascade]

Looks like an easy ask in clubs to me.

[Chamaco]

Cascade, on Jul 18 2004, 07:44 PM, said:

Looks like an easy ask in clubs to me.

Ok, I was a bit tricky

The club ask is obvious but only if we have any chance for slam.
Here pard needs the perfect hand.

I bid 3C ask, pard showed a K, and i signed off in 4H.Pard had

---

LHO led a club, RHO cashed club Q, club A, gave a club ruff to pard, and finally they cashed trump A for down one.
My Control Asking bid directed their lead; at other tables only few west selected clubs as a lead.

i like though Ben's idea of a spade ask. That would have avoided a club lead, and allowed to signoff in game without regrets.

[Cascade]

This is quite an unlucky hand for you.

Partner has only one semi-useful card and club length. And then to top it off the clubs lie badly.

You are going to game anyway and I think the opponents may have found a club lead anyway.

By the way, who had the trump Ace?

[Chamaco]

Cascade, on Jul 19 2004, 01:20 AM, said:

This is quite an unlucky hand for you.

-----

By the way, who had the trump Ace?

Wayne, thanks for the sympathy

RHO had trump ace.

[Cascade]

That makes a club lead a little less likely without the informative auction.

If LHO had the trump Ace then going after a ruff is a quite a good plan when you know you are getting in again and have a chance to find partner's entry for your ruff.

[Free]

My first thought was to ask about ♣, but what extra info do you get? Not the info you need imo. If you ask what he has in ♠ you'll know a lot more imo. That's why I'd follow my second thought (ask in ♠). If he has 1 or more honour in that suit, I'll sign off.

[whereagles]

I would do the spade ask, but only if I was sure I could sign-off in 4H later (otherwise I just bid 4H and that's it). What you need to know is the amount of spade wastage, not how good pard's clubs are.

If responder shows xxx in spades, there good chances that he has

xxxx
Axx
xxx
Axx

and 6H is an odds-on slam.

[Chamaco]

whereagles, on Jul 19 2004, 11:06 AM, said:

I would do the spade ask, but only if I was sure I could sign-off in 4H later (otherwise I just bid 4H and that's it). What you need to know is the amount of spade wastage, not how good pard's clubs are.

If responder shows xxx in spades, there good chances that he has

xxxx
Axx
xxx
Axx

and 6H is an odds-on slam.

Only step that bypasses 4H (after 3S spade ask) would be showing BOTH AK of spades, impossible given my holding.

So yes, in the end spade ask seems the way to go.

[bearmum]

Chamaco, on Jul 19 2004, 12:10 AM, said:

Scoring: MP

Opps silent
1C*:1NT**
2H***:2NT****
?

---

You deal and pick up this hand.
1C* = 16+, Precision
1NT**= 8-13 balanced (may have a stiff honor, may have a bad minor 5 bagger)
2H***= asks for support in hearts
2NT****= minimum range (8-10), support (at least xxx/Hx, where H = AKQ)

At this point your system allows the following to invesrtigate further for a possible slam:

- new suit is Control Asking bid to find out 3rd round control [xx or Qxx(x)], 2nd [x/kx(x)], 1st round [void/A(x)]control, or  AK(x).
- rebidding hearts asks for the quality of support
- 4NT is roman key card blackwood.
- 4H is signoff

What choice is best ?

Interesting Precision bidding (BTW I am not a fan of 1NT 8-13 with a POSSIBLE five bagger )but assuming a possible STIFF honour somewhere OR a 5 bagger to nothing - can I ask - HOW many "asking bids" are allowed?? (assuming counting after the support asking bid of 2H ) -- and all others are CONTROL asking?

MY SECOND asking bid would be in ♣

IF reply is favourable I MIGHT ask a THIRD time in ♠

Pard has ONLY 8-10 so IF he replies 2♦to asking 3♣(nothing in ♣ ) I will sigh off in 4♥ as I think any ♠honours pard hiolds are not useful in POSSIBLE ♥ contract (at theh 6 level anyway)

[Chamaco]

bearmum, on Jul 19 2004, 11:19 AM, said:

HOW many "asking bids" are allowed?? (assuming counting  after the support asking bid of 2H ) -- and all others are CONTROL asking?

We play that after a Support asking bid, any non-jump bid is CAB or repeated TAB (asks more detailed type of support). Jumps past game are Exclusion KCB.
Responses to CABs past game start with 1st step = no control or 3rd rnd control, 2nd step = 2nd control.... etc (collapse the 3rd round control in 1st step).

However, CABS may be space consuming (e.g. pard holding A or void bids the 4th step), so unless you KNOW that pard cannot bid too high, it is better to expect to be able to make 2 CABs staying below game.
---------

There are sure more complex designs of SABs/TABs/CABs.

I strongly recommend OliverC's Precision BIL lessons, there is also his Precision notes online.

[EarlPurple]

If I could find out partner having such a hand in spades I'd want to be in 3NT but could I sign off in 4NT?

Over 3♣ partner will show a 2nd round control but I'd really like to know where his main values are.

[Trpltrbl]

I'll ask in ♠, if nothing there points must be good for me. If points there I am signing of in 4♥.

Mike