[vuroth]

Playing matchpoints last night, playing 2/1, I had the following auction:

1♠ 2♥
3♣ 3♠
3NT ...

My thought was that parnter might only have 2 spades. In the cold light of day, I'm not sure if that makes sense or not.

Are their auctions in which both partners have bid the same major, but that you might want to bid 3NT along the way, just in case?

[Fluffy]

having the 4th suit cheaper than 3♠ I doubt 3♠ can be 2 cards, if it was 1♥-2♦-3♣-3♥ I'd say it is possible, but here it has not as much sense.

So if you play serious, frivoulous or something (I play 3NT as no shortness slam try) then it still applies.

I know, it is match points, and 3NT might outscore 4M, but we made a 2/1 GF bid followed by a reverse, we are in the slam camp, and we better use slam tools than gambling game tools.

If you have no agreements at all then 3NT is a 5134 woth good diamonds willing to outscore 4M

[vuroth]

Fluffy, on Feb 16 2010, 09:22 AM, said:

having the 4th suit cheaper than 3♠ I doubt 3♠ can be 2 cards

so if it had been:

1♠ 2♥
3♦ 3♠

it's more likely that partner only has 2 spades?

[hanp]

No, 3S shows 3 spades in any of these auctions. You can try to understand why but much more important is to know that it does.

[nigel_k]

It definitely should be three card support whenever you can bid the fourth suit at the three level because it's important to be able to set trumps in order to investigate slams sensibly instead of those horrible auctions where only one player knows what trumps are.

The only one you might consider doing differently is 1♠-2♥-3♦ because 3♠ on a doubleton may be the only way to find the right game and/or play from the right side, and you can bid 4♣ to set trumps without wasting a lot of space. But in that case you would always bid 4♣ with three spades, so you still avoid the 'might only have 2' situation because 3♠ will always be 2.

Having found a 5-3 fit at the three level, it is up to you whether you use 3NT as a suggestion to play there or as Serious 3NT or something else. But I think Serious 3NT is more useful.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

3S should show a fit, espially if you require 4 card support for a Jacoby
2NT response.
If responder has only 2 spades and 5 hearts, he has the option to bid 3D,
a option, he should use.

Now to a certain degree, it still may make sense to play 3NT as a suggestion
to play 3NT, showing a 5422 distribution, but I would suggest, that you use
3NT a slam investigation bid - serious 3NT or non serious 3NT.
This will come up more often, and will help you to decide below 4M, if you
have the strength and controls for playing slam.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: I am a firm believer, that you should always play the major fit, if you
discovered one, but lots of player disagree, which is ok, but ...

[P_Marlowe]

vuroth, on Feb 16 2010, 09:51 AM, said:

Fluffy, on Feb 16 2010, 09:22 AM, said:

having the 4th suit cheaper than 3♠ I doubt 3♠ can be 2 cards

so if it had been:

1♠ 2♥
3♦ 3♠

it's more likely that partner only has 2 spades?

If you compare the auctions, than the answer is yes, but that is just
one side.

The question is, how does the responding hand look like?

The responding hand has to have

#0 gameforcing values
#1 exactly 5 hearts
#2 exactly 2 spades
#3 at most 3 diamonds (otherwise you would have a fit)
#4 3 or more worth less clubs (otherwise you would have a club stopper)

All in all the number of hands, which would like to bid 3S is not a big one,
there are a couple of hands, with 3 spades and 5+ hearts.

This does not mean, that 3S could not be based on Hx, but opener should
assume, that 3S showes primary fit and act accordingly.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mike777]

vuroth, on Feb 16 2010, 09:14 AM, said:

Playing matchpoints last night, playing 2/1, I had the following auction:

1♠ 2♥
3♣ 3♠
3NT ...

My thought was that parnter might only have 2 spades.  In the cold light of day, I'm not sure if that makes sense or not.

Are their auctions in which both partners have bid the same major, but that you might want to bid 3NT along the way, just in case?

ya i play 3s as 100% slam try....not game try.

I play 3c=clbs...not extra

so....3c=clubs...not extra



3s=slam try.....non minimum

[MinorKid]

Holdong 2 card ♠ i might bid 2NT instead

[helene_t]

hanp, on Feb 16 2010, 04:12 PM, said:

No, 3S shows 3 spades in any of these auctions. You can try to understand why but much more important is to know that it does.

So what do you bid after
1♠-2♥
3♦-?

holding
Qx
AKxxx
Axx
xxx
?

[PhantomSac]

IMO 1S 2H 3D 3S specifically could be a doubleton, and 3N over that just shows a club stopper.

[hanp]

I would prefer to play that 3S does not show 3 when I hold that hand. Unfortunately we have to decide on system before we pick up our hand, and there is no system that is optimal on every possible hand.

It is also evident how uncomfortably high we are and that partner should be very reluctant to put us in such a position.

On the given auction I would like to bid 4C as a choice of games. Since I can bid 3H, 3S or 4D all forcing, I think that is the best meaning for 4C and I would use it with this hand.