[Bbradley62]

I've been away from tournament bridge for about 10 years, so I'm not familiar with some current trends. I've noticed that many players on BBO (despite what their convention cards may say) open 1NT with hands up to 18HCP and open 2NT starting at 19HCP, eliminating the 1m-2NTrebid sequence. What's up with that?

[Stephen Tu]

Many players on BBO simply just don't know how to bid.

And some of them may be hand hogs, they don't want partner to declare so they are distorting to grab the NT.

[1eyedjack]

I also have observed this. Personally I prefer a full 21 count to open 2N, and with 20 points if partner passes 1x I generally heave a sigh of relief. But there are quite a few with better pedigree who open (say) a "Mexcan" 2D or some such with 18-20 or so balanced, so that they reserve the jump 2N rebid to show some artificial hand such as the Bridge World "hand of death" (ie strong raise with only 3 card support). It is beyond me to provide an objective evaluation based on the experience of trying all the methods in serious competition.

[babalu1997]

Bbradley62, on Feb 13 2010, 01:48 PM, said:

I've been away from tournament bridge for about 10 years, so I'm not familiar with some current trends. I've noticed that many players on BBO (despite what their convention cards may say) open 1NT with hands up to 18HCP and open 2NT starting at 19HCP, eliminating the 1m-2NTrebid sequence. What's up with that?

what i do is this

1. i never play with folks who open 16-18 nt, i cannot comprehend their bidding, i end up passing and not playing 3nt or they raise me to 3nt and end in disaster

2. hand hogs they may well be as stephen said

3. One of the worst auction i was in was 1club by partner, void inclubs and sapde 4th to kq i respond 1 sapdes. three no trump-- guy had about 13 points, and sinleton sapdes.

4. another experience at bbo is when they open 2nt, i usually pass unless i feel partner can get to dummy twice. the other day i had kqxx in a major, passed 2nt. while butchering the 2nt, the partner says you have to raise, you have to raise 25 hcp. 2nt is now down 2 vulnerable, and this is all my fault because i did not raise to 3.

best thing to do is to put the partner temprarily on enemy list and remove after the whole thing is over.

the standards are bad

[aguahombre]

All of the above seems true. Another problem I see, even with "honest" attempts to upgrade a 19 and open 2NT, is this:

Most people agree that auctions which start with 2NT are slam killers because of the amount of room consumed. perhaps these same people should hold back on the initial upgrading before they have a clue about what responder is going to do.

[Stephen Tu]

Quote

another experience at bbo is when they open 2nt, i usually pass unless i feel partner can get to dummy twice. the other day i had kqxx in a major, passed 2nt. while butchering the 2nt, the partner says you have to raise, you have to raise 25 hcp. 2nt is now down 2 vulnerable, and this is all my fault because i did not raise to 3.

Uh it's their fault for butchering the play, but they are right it's pretty sick for you to pass 2nt with KQxx in a major. 2nt is just not a great contract, no game bonus, you feel sick if you get 150/180, if 3nt goes down often 2nt goes down also, at IMPS it's just not at all a close decision. Way too often partner has a fit for your major or comes up with AJx, the 3-4 tricks make it easy for 3nt to make. Even MP, game should be above average and you should bid it. You should only pass when you think 3nt is going to be really thin, and think that partner has to be lucky to make 2nt.

[helene_t]

I can imagine a number of reasons why people don't want to open in a minor suit with a balanced 18-19:
- They may have been taught in the stone age when a 2NT rebid was 18 and a 3NT rebid was 19. Then they discovered that that sucks but didn't realize that the solution is to rebid 2NT with 18-19. Or they dunno what partner means when he rebids 3NT if 2NT was 18-19.
- They don't know the follow ups after a 2nt rebid.
- They once went down in 1♣ in a 3-1 fit when 4♥ was cold.

As Stephen says, lots of people just don't know how to bid.

[wank]

Bbradley62, on Feb 13 2010, 01:48 PM, said:

I've been away from tournament bridge for about 10 years, so I'm not familiar with some current trends. I've noticed that many players on BBO (despite what their convention cards may say) open 1NT with hands up to 18HCP and open 2NT starting at 19HCP, eliminating the 1m-2NTrebid sequence. What's up with that?

don't try to extrapolate any bridge knowledge from random bboers

[ONEferBRID]

If opening 1NT = 16-18 and 2NT with 19 were good ideas, they would be in all of the reference books as "standard".

I'm sure they have been debunked a long time ago and are in the category of "losing bridge".

[babalu1997]

ONEferBRID, on Feb 14 2010, 08:39 AM, said:

If opening 1NT = 16-18 and 2NT with 19 were good ideas, they would be in all of the reference books as "standard".

I'm sure they have been debunked a long time ago and are in the category of "losing bridge".

perhaps they are perhaps they are not in the category of losing bids.

but, please note that i never stated that the 16-18 no trump open has been debunked.

it can work if in fact the no trump chain and constructive bidding of your system is adjusted. i meant in fact to say that the player with the 16-18 no trump will issue responses that will not match my expectations.

the 12-14 no trump , 14-16 are well and alive.

and the 4 card major open, and even the min no trum 10-12 can work.

each different system has a set of optimum deals and a set of losing deals

[matmat]

wank, on Feb 14 2010, 07:14 AM, said:

Bbradley62, on Feb 13 2010, 01:48 PM, said:

I've been away from tournament bridge for about 10 years, so I'm not familiar with some current trends. I've noticed that many players on BBO (despite what their convention cards may say) open 1NT with hands up to 18HCP and open 2NT starting at 19HCP, eliminating the 1m-2NTrebid sequence. What's up with that?

don't try to extrapolate any bridge knowledge from random bboers

this.

[helene_t]

ONEferBRID, on Feb 14 2010, 02:39 PM, said:

If opening 1NT = 16-18 and 2NT with 19 were good ideas, they would be in all of the reference books as "standard".

I'm sure they have been debunked a long time ago and are in the category of "losing bridge".

I don't think this is a good argument. There are plenty of good ideas which are not standard.

[pooltuna]

matmat, on Feb 14 2010, 04:05 PM, said:

wank, on Feb 14 2010, 07:14 AM, said:

Bbradley62, on Feb 13 2010, 01:48 PM, said:

I've been away from tournament bridge for about 10 years, so I'm not familiar with some current trends. I've noticed that many players on BBO (despite what their convention cards may say) open 1NT with hands up to 18HCP and open 2NT starting at 19HCP, eliminating the 1m-2NTrebid sequence. What's up with that?

don't try to extrapolate any bridge knowledge from random bboers

this.

yes but it leaves out the addendum "if you want to maintain your sanity"

[Cyberyeti]

The general idea of eliminating the 2N rebid is sound, but does compromise the rest of your system somewhere.

I habitually play weak no trump, and have done this in two ways.

1) play a wide range (12-16 or similar) no trump with a complicated system of responses, and a 17-19 1N rebid.

2) play a 12-14 no trump and a 15-bad 19 1N rebid, with a good 19 opening 2N.

Both of these are perfectly playable, and allow you to bid some really good hands much more easily by using 1x-1y-2N as GF unbalanced.

[helene_t]

Yeah Cyberyeti that is true but what the people referred to in the OP play is
1m-1M
1NT=12-15

1NT=16-18

1m-1M
2NT=undefined

2NT=19-21

2♣-2♦
2NT=22-23

2♣-2♦
2NT=24+

and that obviously sucks