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Zagrebački... F1 or NF

Poll: F1 or NF (42 member(s) have cast votes)

F1 or NF

  1. Forcing (27 votes [64.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 64.29%

  2. Non-forcing (15 votes [35.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.71%

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#1 User is offline   Poky 

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  Posted 2010-February-11, 08:52

1♦ 1♥
2NT 3♦
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#2 User is offline   ONEferBRID 

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Posted 2010-February-11, 08:58

It depends what type of "checkback" system you use.
I personally like the Wolff Relay which only uses 3C! as checkback;
thus 3D = natural, forcing.

Others may use "NMF" where 3C! here would be checkback and 3D is NF.
Don Stenmark ( TWOferBRIDGE )
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#3 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-February-11, 09:23

Welcome to AE, Poky.
OK
bed
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#4 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2010-February-11, 09:30

If you do not play any specialized methods over the 2NT rebid, any bid over 2NT is forcing to game.
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#5 User is offline   SchTsch 

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Posted 2010-February-11, 10:17

Well, this poll is a consequence of a discussion Poky and I had on our local forum when we were asked this question.

The question is not what is it in your partnership.
The question is what is a common sense for this situation?

Let's say, average pick-up partner, minimum agreements.
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#6 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2010-February-11, 13:14

Forcing (to game, not a one round force). The frequency and importance of hands where you need to investigate slam or the best game far exceeds the times when you might prefer to play 3♦ instead of 2NT.
http://bridgethoughts.blogspot.com
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#7 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-February-11, 15:08

I don't care, I wouldn't bid this if I didn't know what my partner would think.

I play transfers here btw.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#8 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2010-February-11, 15:16

ArtK78, on Feb 11 2010, 10:30 AM, said:

If you do not play any specialized methods over the 2NT rebid, any bid over 2NT is forcing to game.

Disagree. I think if you don't play specialized methods that both 3♦ and 3♥ are non-forcing here.

Am I crazy?
Kevin Fay
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#9 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-February-11, 15:17

kfay, on Feb 11 2010, 04:16 PM, said:

ArtK78, on Feb 11 2010, 10:30 AM, said:

If you do not play any specialized methods over the 2NT rebid, any bid over 2NT is forcing to game.

Disagree. I think if you don't play specialized methods that both 3♦ and 3♥ are non-forcing here.

Am I crazy?

yes
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#10 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2010-February-11, 16:48

SchTsch, on Feb 11 2010, 11:17 AM, said:

Well, this poll is a consequence of a discussion Poky and I had on our local forum when we were asked this question.

The question is not what is it in your partnership.
The question is what is a common sense for this situation?

Let's say, average pick-up partner, minimum agreements.

Under those conditions, it is forcing. Under other conditions, it is forcing unless methods agreed where it is defined as nonforcing.
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#11 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-February-11, 17:28

I'm crazy too.

3♦ or 3♥ making instead of 2NT going down is worth half a game. In this sequence, you're far more likely to have a weak 4-4 than a slam try with diamonds, and if you do have the slam try you can probably afford to bid 4♦ anyway.

If you have five hearts and want to check for a 5-3 heart fit, you can bid a "natural" 3♣. Opener won't raise it very often (if ever), and if he does he'll probably have good enough hearts to make 4♥ OK.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2010-February-11, 17:29

... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#12 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2010-February-12, 01:19

I am crazy too too.
Kind Regards

Roland

Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
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#13 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2010-February-12, 02:20

Old fashioned standard is that 3D is forcing. If you're not playing old fashioned standard but want to play 3D and 3H are natural, then it's probably theoretically good to play that they're NF.

But who cares, because if you are not playing old fashioned standard, there are a zillion things you can play that are much better than 3D or 3H natural and either GF/NF.
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#14 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2010-February-12, 02:36

rogerclee, on Feb 12 2010, 03:20 AM, said:

Old fashioned standard is that 3D is forcing. If you're not playing old fashioned standard but want to play 3D and 3H are natural, then it's probably theoretically good to play that they're NF.

But who cares, because if you are not playing old fashioned standard, there are a zillion things you can play that are much better than 3D or 3H natural and either GF/NF.

Eh? I thought 'old fashioned standard' was non-forcing.

I guess I must be crazy too.
Ming

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#15 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-February-12, 02:51

"Old fashioned standard" is bound to vary by location. In old-fashioned American everything was forcing - even 1♠-3♠ - so it's no surprise that this was also forcing.

I'm not sure what relevance that has to two modern players who know that they haven't agreed anything artificial. If I find myself sitting down opposite a good English player without time for discussion, I don't assume that we're playing 1960s Acol.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#16 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2010-February-12, 02:58

Hi,

I voted NF, but than we play NMF after the 2NT rebid.

As a matter of fact, it may well be that I have agreed with my p to
play it as forcing, oh well.

Keep it simple, after a 1NT respibd 2D would be NF in a NMF Context,
so I would suggest to keep it in sync.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#17 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2010-February-14, 07:24

gnasher, on Feb 12 2010, 08:51 AM, said:

"Old fashioned standard" is bound to vary by location. In old-fashioned American everything was forcing - even 1♠-3♠ - so it's no surprise that this was also forcing.

I'm not sure what relevance that has to two modern players who know that they haven't agreed anything artificial. If I find myself sitting down opposite a good English player without time for discussion, I don't assume that we're playing 1960s Acol.

That depends on partner.
Opposite most good, but elderly, English players I would assume non-forcing.
Opposite younger people I would assume forcing.
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