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Unintended or not, and out of turn England UK

#1 User is offline   bluejak 

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  Posted 2010-February-10, 18:11

Borrowed [without permission] from rec.games.bridge:

North is dealer.

East pulls out a Pass card and lays it on the table. Then says "Oops, Sorry.", takes back the Pass card and pulls out 1NT and lays that on the table instead.

North says "Director, please!"

How do you rule?
David Stevenson

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Visiting IBLF from time to time
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#2 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2010-February-10, 18:44

There has been a change of call. First I investigate whether this qualifies as a 25A change. If so, pass is cancelled, and 1NT is the call made. The call is out of turn. Caller's LHO may accept it (Law 29A) and there is no further rectification. If the call is not accepted, it is cancelled, and the auction reverts to dealer North (Law 29B). If North passes, East must repeat the 1NT bid and there is no further rectification (Law 31A1). If North bids, East may make any legal call. If he bids NT (at a legal level) West must pass at his next (first) turn. Law 23 may apply (Law 31A2a). If East makes any other call, there may be lead penalties (Law 26) and West must pass throughout the auction (Law 31A2b).

If a Law 25A change is disallowed, South may accept the change of call (Law 25B1). If South accepts the change, he also accepts that it was out of turn, and Law 29A applies as above. If South does not accept the change, 1NT is cancelled, the pass stands (Law 25B2), information from the 1NT call is UI to West (Law 16D), and now we deal with the pass out of turn. South may accept the pass out of turn (Law 29A), the auction continues, there is no further rectification. If South does not accept the pass out of turn, per Law 30A, the auction reverts to North, and East must pass at his first turn to call. Law 23 may apply.
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#3 User is offline   VixTD 

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Posted 2010-February-11, 07:42

blackshoe, on Feb 10 2010, 07:44 PM, said:

If North bids, East may make any legal call. If he bids NT (at a legal level) West must pass at his next (first) turn.

I'm not sure about this bit. Law 31A2(a) says:

Quote

[when offender's replacement call] repeats the denomination of his bid out of rotation, offender’s partner must pass when next it is his turn to call


Suppose North opens 1. If East overcalls 1NT, or 3NT, or (probably) 6NT, this is repeating the denomination.

What if he overcalls 2NT, or 4NT, which most partnerships play as unusual?
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#4 User is offline   RMB1 

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Posted 2010-February-11, 09:43

VixTD, on Feb 11 2010, 01:42 PM, said:

What if he overcalls 2NT, or 4NT, which most partnerships play as unusual?

Do people make two-suited overcalls when partner is silenced for at least one round.
Robin

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#5 User is offline   VixTD 

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Posted 2010-February-11, 10:16

No, quite right. I withdraw my objection. I'd missed the fact that the choice was between a one-round pass and pass throughout.
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#6 User is offline   jeffford76 

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Posted 2010-February-11, 10:56

blackshoe, on Feb 10 2010, 05:44 PM, said:

If a Law 25A change is disallowed, South may accept the change of call (Law 25B1). If South accepts the change, he also accepts that it was out of turn, and Law 29A applies as above.

I don't think the law is particularly clear here. It seems just as reasonable to say that accepting the change and accepting the call out of turn are separate acts. I think South should be able to accept the change to 1NT, then reject 1NT as a call out of turn, essentially getting to choose whether the penalties are for a pass out of turn or a bid out of turn.

But again, I don't think the law actually says which of these is right, as in general it doesn't handle multiple irregularities at once very well.
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