[xx1943]

hrothgar, on Jul 16 2004, 12:26 PM, said:

1.  Consistant application of a specific set of well known regulations
2.  "Fair" movements that minimize the element of luck
3.  Detailed analysis of tournament results
4.  Hand analysis would be a nice addition...

All these nice things are offered by Malucys new projekt and will be available soon:

Click here: IBD

[PriorKnowledge]

The question was asked if BBO does anything to prevent masterpoint fraud.

Somehow this turned into a discussion on the value of masterpoints.

Worse, it turned into an insulting personal attack about a person's life choices.

If I say I like ketchup on my hotdog, does that make me stupid? Are you going to tell me what an idiot I am because everybody knows you put mustard on a hotdog and ketchup on a hamburger. Maybe you might harass me about hotdogs in general. "Do you know what they are made of? How can you eat that?"

You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

[PriorKnowledge]

And while you are insulting masterpoints, I'll bet if I told you I had 30 masterpoints, you would never play with me. But if I told you I had almost 6,000 you would play with me in an instant.

[paulhar]

PriorKnowledge, on Jul 16 2004, 03:19 PM, said:

And while you are insulting masterpoints, I'll bet if I told you I had 30 masterpoints, you would never play with me. But if I told you I had almost 6,000 you would play with me in an instant.

You can't be talking about me. I choose to play with a partner not because of the number of masterpoints he has, but because of the expected compatability of our partnership. Sure, skill matters. But the number of masterpoints hardly is a good indication of skill. Want to find a good partner? Keep your eyes and ears open! You can get an idea if somebody is decent by playing against him. But just as important is, is the person compatible with me, and do I like the person, and will I have fun playing with this person?

I can't believe that anybody is so naive as to choose a partner based on the number of masterpoints somebody has.

If you told someone you had 6000 masterpoints, they probably wouldn't believe you whether you were telling the truth or not. After I've played a hand like a mouse in a maze, my partners wouldn't believe me if I told the truth! Let's step up to the partnership desk. I've done that a couple of times and told the truth. You can imagine how my next few hours went.

When I had about 100 points and was off the radar screen for anybody good (maybe I'm supporting your supposition with that phrase), I was playing matchpoint pairs and after the event, a player with about 30 points asked me to play in the next tournament with him, citing as his reason for asking that I played a couple of hands really well against them. I agreed and he sent me 63 pages of system notes and we sent a few letters back and forth about defensive carding. We both had more fun and also were more successful than if either of us had been 'discovered' by someone with tons of masterpoints. He won the national Mini-McKenney race the following year. If either of us cared about playing with someone with a lot of points, that whole experience would have been missed. In case you think this is unusual, my wife found her regular partner (prior to me - her last partner was good!) when they were both novices and each discovered that the other had a clue. They came up through the ranks together and now her old partner is a professional bridge player. Neither of them would have been as successful if either of them had found a partner with a few hundred points that wasn't going to improve.

I don't know how many masterpoints any of my favorite partners have on BBO. Some might have a lot, some very few. But they're all fun to play with, and we're compatible. (They don't know how many I have either, some would guess zero. ) But your blanket statement about playing with you based on the number of masterpoints is just silly. If people notice that you play well, you'll get asked by decent players. Otherwise, not.

[Frosty]

The thing that I find silliest about some of the posts in this thread is that some posters are missing the bigger picture and discrediting the idea of a young person working for a goal... If it were an Olympic Gold Medal or a university degree or a dozen other objectives, it could still be/become just as "useless" as Masters Points. The point isn't WHAT you are striving to attain - the point is that you have the character to set objectives and are willing to sacrifice/work to attain them.

True - sex is better than Masters Points . But the high of winning an important tournament is probably healthier and, argueably, can be just as satisfying as drugs and alcohol (this from one of the Woodstock generation who's been there, done that - don't tell my kids LOL).

Personally I don't strive to be an athlete, or a politician, or a jet pilot, or a lot of other things because these objectives have no value to me. I'm a classically trained singer. I chose to advance my education in a field in which I would likely never earn a living, and did so despite the discouragement of those around me who felt I was wasting my time with something non-substantive. Contrary to the concensus of the nay-sayers, it was a good choice and has brought me opportunity and immeasurable personal satisfaction throughout my life. This isn't important except by comparison to the topic of the value of MP's. What is worthwhile to one person will not be another's cup of tea. I object to the condescension of those who feel MP's are worthless, when in fact, the value of any objective is rightfully assigned by the person who determines to achieve the goal. Setting goals and working for them, having something you enjoy that can also challenge you, finding a way to be good at something - these are all worthy character traits.

Those of you who don't have anything good to say about MasterPoints - check with your Mom - she has some sage advice, I'll bet. Good for you jlud!

[TimG]

[Frosty]

Tim - again you miss the point

Frosty

[TimG]

[TimG]

[Frosty]

Tim -

While you personally may not have missed the "point" a second time - it has been missed more than once in this thread.

The "point", as I've explained, is the merit of an individual identifying and pursuing any goal of self improvement. The "point" is that it doesn't matter if YOU value the goal. The "point" is, and was, that belittling someone else's values simply because you don't share them accomplishes a grand total of nothing. It is simply condescension. It's not as if this were a moral, economic or political issue. How is it that anyone benefits by your poo-pooing someone's accomplishments? We got that you don't give a rip about MP's, (and to a great extent I happen to share your lack of interest in MP's) ...... but that ISN'T the point . This young man has accomplished something that he is entitled to be proud of regardless of whether you and I aspire to it or not.

Frosty

[TimG]

Frosty, on Jul 26 2004, 04:12 PM, said:

The "point", as I've explained, is the merit of an individual identifying and pursuing any goal of self improvement.

You are absolutely right: pursuing goals of self improvement is to be respected. And, I'm sorry if I suggested otherwise. However, if the original poster is measuring his self improvement by the number of masterpoints he wins, he is misguided. I'll stick by that one.

[pclayton]

Dwayne, on Jul 15 2004, 10:35 PM, said:

jdulmage, on Jul 15 2004, 02:01 PM, said:

.... I started bridge at 15 and got away and was never given the chance to be involved in the sex, the drugs and the alcohol, not to mention other bad habits that teenagers pick up.

good grief.

At the risk of also sounding unprofessional and bias (sic), I can unequivocally state the most unattractive (in the non-physical sense) 20-something bridge players in my end of the world are exactly those who began playing bridge at 15 and have yet to taste the ... er life experiences that James has so assiduously avoided.

As for the value of masterpoints, don't get the regulars in this forum started. Uday mentions often enough the lack of hard-disk space at his ISP for us to be warned off going down this beaten road.

Dwayne (no... I am not related to Joyce deWitt)

Lets try not too get too judgmental here, jeez, we'd all be proud to have a kid like this.

Jdulmage - you are OK in my book. You sound like a carbon copy of me; started at 15, and enjoyed the 'buzz' pulling off a psyche or executing a squeeze provides a lot more than the distractions your peers face.

However, try to balance your life and apply your skills to other things. I will share with you what one of my bridge partners wrote in a card when I graduated High School: "Now that you have mastered one thing, you have the key to master anything".

At 41, while bridge isn't the only thing that I enjoy, it is still my #1 hobby by far. Somehow, missing out on a lot of 'life's experiences' hasn't hurt me too much.