[matmat]

rho deals and opens 1♦

you hold, (MP, unfavorable)
♠ AKT86
♥ AJ98
♦ 2
♣ AJ4

Do you prefer 1♠ or Dbl.? Why?

Regardless of your choice, lho passes and p bids 1NT, rho producing the green card as well.

what's your plan? (assume opps have said their bit and remain silent for the time being).

[dicklont]

Double
This hand is strong enough to show spades later, if necessary.

The plan:
(1D) - Dbl - (p) -

1Ha - (p) - 3H
1Sp - (p) - 3Sp
1NT - (p) - 2Sp
2Cl - (p) - 2Sp

[PhantomSac]

Yeah I'd double, being passed out in 1S cold for 4H is a definite concern, and our playing strength is enough to X and bid 1S.

[Cyberyeti]

PhantomSac, on Jan 30 2010, 04:24 AM, said:

Yeah I'd double, being passed out in 1S cold for 4H is a definite concern, and our playing strength is enough to X and bid 1S.

Depends on what partner expects for an overcall, as ours are not on rubbish (we WJO on bad hands), we respond on pretty much any hand we'd respond to an opening bid with, so no danger overcalling on this hand and making a 3♥ rebid.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

1S.

I like to make T/O, but given that you have 5 spades and 4 hearts,
start with showing the spades, you are strong enough to get in a 2nd
time.

X is a bid you would choose, if you would not want to bid a 2nd time,
unless p showed some life.

After p bids 1NT, show the hearts, you are not strong enough to
force to game, so 2H is enough, if p gives preference to 2S, bid 3C.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[bftboy]

I agree with an initial dbl and then the plan as described by dicklont, exc. that if P bid 1♠, I'd bid 4♦. We need very little from P for game, and even slam isn't impossible, altho it may be impossible to bid.

Over the actual 1nt response to the dbl, I'd bid 2♠. If P raises, at MPs, I'd probably pass as I'd be concerned about likely wasted ♦ values.

[jjbrr]

I would have started with 1♠ and bid 2♦ over 1NT. I assume this isnt natural.

[PhantomSac]

I'll just say imo Xing pretty light when I was 5-4 in the majors and primed out rather than overcalling was an expensive lesson I learned. The trend especially in the 2000s was becoming to overcall so heavy which I agree with on certain hand types that I think we all got wrapped up in it and started overcalling on a hand like this (zomg only 17 points!)

Even if you start with 1S and it doesn't get passed out which is a real danger because partner can pass with many 5-7 counts with 1-4/1-5 in the majors, and the opps won't save you with length in spades (despite someone saying earlier that they respond with any hand that would respond to a 1 bid with, that is a very non standard/bad style in response to an overcall), your hand is so good opposite a fit that you will struggle to catch up even if they bid.

For instance, take the auction

(1D) 1S (2D) p
(p) X (p) 3C
(p) ?

I assume you will pass here, but you could easily miss a game opposite something like as xx Qxx xxx KQxxx (in fact you might have missed a slam!). Had you doubled it could go 1D X 2D 3C, and you will reach game easily, because you encouraged partner to bid a suit freely which is quite important on a flexible/primed out strong hand like this that improves greatly opposite a fit.

How about an auction like 1D 1S 3D p p X p 3H p ?

Surely you should bid game here (though a lot of beginner/ints would not realize that), even though partner could have 0, you make game opposite very little when partner has hearts. Well if you are driving to game opposite a heart fit, I don't see much gain in having bid 1S first. Even after

1D 1S 3D p p X p 3S you really have no idea what to do. Partner is going to pass 3D with something like 6 points and 3 spades pretty much always since your overcall range is so wide, and he needs such a good hand to bid 4S directly, his 3S lower limit must go up to keep the range from being too wide.

The truth is these auctions where the opponents are going to preempt in diamonds are the BEST ones for overcalling 1S, because sometimes after doubling it will be tricky to get your fifth spade in if the opponents preempt. But they still aren't exactly great, because your strength is so understated and you need to make up for it. If partner is ever able to freely bid something after you double you're in great shape, and if the opponents do not preempt that high you're in great shape.

If you have always overcalled 1S with this hand routinely I'd encourage you to try doubling next time you have a hand like this.

[fred]

Making heavy overcalls is acceptable these days and I am certainly not adverse to making them myself. However, overcalling with a hand this strong should be seen as a last resort - it is something you do only when you have no other acceptable alternatives.

The distribution of this hand means that you have an alternative that is not only acceptable, but is ideal. I would go as far as to say that this hand is pretty close to being protypical for a hand that should DBL with the intention of bidding a suit on the next round. If I was writing an article about DBL-and-bid-suit, this hand would make a perfect example.

My judgment suggests that it is not at all likely that you will end up regretting it if you DBL and that it is quite likely that you will end up regretting it if you overcall 1S. Lots of bad things could happen if you overcall 1S and plan to DBL later. For example, if you are fortunate enough that there actually is a later, partner could be forgiven for not playing you for 4 cards in hearts - with some hands he might bid spades instead of hearts with 2-4 in the majors.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[pooltuna]

matmat, on Jan 30 2010, 03:05 AM, said:

rho deals and opens 1♦

you hold, (MP, unfavorable)
♠ AKT86
♥ AJ98
♦ 2
♣ AJ4

Do you prefer 1♠ or Dbl.? Why?

Regardless of your choice, lho passes and p bids 1NT, rho producing the green card as well.

what's your plan? (assume opps have said their bit and remain silent for the time being).

Dble. I prefer not to put partner under too much pressure to respond to my overcalls and I prefer to keep the range of values for an overcall as small as possible.

Over 1NT I will now venture 2♠

[Cyberyeti]

PhantomSac, on Jan 30 2010, 02:11 PM, said:

Even if you start with 1S and it doesn't get passed out which is a real danger because partner can pass with many 5-7 counts with 1-4/1-5 in the majors, and the opps won't save you with length in spades (despite someone saying earlier that they respond with any hand that would respond to a 1 bid with, that is a very non standard/bad style in response to an overcall), your hand is so good opposite a fit that you will struggle to catch up even if they bid.

For instance, take the auction

(1D) 1S (2D) p
(p) X (p) 3C
(p) ?

I assume you will pass here, but you could easily miss a game opposite something like  as xx Qxx xxx KQxxx (in fact you might have missed a slam!). Had you doubled it could go 1D X 2D 3C, and you will reach game easily, because you encouraged partner to bid a suit freely which is quite important on a flexible/primed out strong hand like this that improves greatly opposite a fit.

Actually this is garbage, partner has the use of a Lebensohl type 2N so there is a distinction between 2N and pass 3♣ and the 3♣ bid that shows values so we'd have no problem bidding game on the hand you give.

Also since we actually probably open lighter than we overcall, particularly where we're say overcalling a diamond over a club (we WJO a lot more freely than most people with a 5 card suit), we have no issue responding to an overcall as if it was an opening bid.

[PhantomSac]

Cyberyeti, on Jan 31 2010, 04:30 AM, said:

Also since we actually probably open lighter than we overcall,

lol ok, you're a superexpert! Guess you overcall on a 21 count since partner will respond as if you had opened at the 1 level also!

[hotShot]

Nowadays you see people making 1-level overcalls on 8 HCP hands.
This is a very good hand and you almost have the perfect shape to support any suit partner might have.
I would not even consider any other bid than dbl.

I have an easy 2♠ bid over opps 1NT.

[mcphee]

I think that there is a considerable difference in auctions that begin with a S o/c and dble when partner responds 1NT. This hand is pretty good and one nice reason for dble is we also hold 4H and it does bring some focus on the majors. Yet if you dble partner may well be pinched and respond 1NT with D length and less than suitable values for the bid. If I o/c is S and they bid NT this is a much different story and they will have a better hand as we do not expect them to make a free bid to improve the contract but a more constructive hand.

1S for me.

Fred, please change your mind or I will crash my Luxor into your Imperial and scoop all the shares!

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I used to maked a T/O with the hand in question.
And since the quality of the spade suit is very good, and since we are talking
about spade, X is ok, but I changed my preference, what to do towards 1S,
but ask me again after a reasonable time has passed and I would vote X, I
dont think there is big difference regarding the merrits between both bids.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[fred]

mcphee, on Jan 31 2010, 12:26 PM, said:

Fred, please change your mind or I will crash my Luxor into your Imperial and scoop all the shares!

Wow - that brings back some 25-year old memories! Actually it is kind of amazing that we have any memories at all of those times given the number of brain cells that we must have killed

But sorry Bob, despite the nostalgia I don't think I am going to change my mind about this one. My opinion is this case is a strong one. I think even our friend Mr. Kokish, the high-priest of heavy overcalls, would agree with me here.

How much more would you need to Double with this shape?

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[Little Kid]

Double! (I just had to get 101 posts! )