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Partner Opened 2C IIRC WTF?

#1 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 12:02

A few reasonable players have, for some reason, eschewed the action I took on this hand...


Scoring: IMP

2♣-2♦
2♥-3♥
3♠-4♦
4♥-?

Kevin Fay
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#2 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 12:14

I would bid 5C. Three extra queens warrant an extra try.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#3 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 12:20

I would bid 5C. Three extra queens warant an extra try.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#4 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 12:28

jdonn, on Feb 4 2010, 01:20 PM, said:

I would bid 5C. Three extra queens warant an extra try.

warrant
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#5 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 12:30

Wait a second....
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#6 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 12:32

Does partner have any inferences about our hand besides the ♦K and trump support? Could we/have we made a serious try?
OK
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#7 User is offline   kayin801 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 12:36

Isn't our side missing a club control?
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.

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#8 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 12:41

It is possible that partner has a club control but a hand not good enough to go past 4H.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#9 User is offline   kayin801 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 12:49

What is 5H now in this auction (or in an auction like this)? No more controls but just scattered values too good to sign off?
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.

East4Evil ♥ sohcahtoa 4ever!!!!!1
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#10 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 12:53

Yes, but I think that 5C is more descriptive.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#11 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 12:58

To me 4D then 5C would imply that I have diamonds and short clubs, I would just bid 5H here. Obviously the 5C bidders think they have denied a club control already.
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#12 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 13:23

PhantomSac, on Feb 4 2010, 07:58 PM, said:

To me 4D then 5C would imply that I have diamonds and short clubs

Wouldn't you splinter with that?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#13 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 13:23

distinct danger of getting to slam sans the requisite number of bangers. 4s as sub blackwood last train?
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#14 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 13:31

wank, on Feb 4 2010, 02:23 PM, said:

distinct danger of getting to slam sans the requisite number of bangers. 4s as sub blackwood last train?

wat?
OK
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#15 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 14:00

wank, on Feb 4 2010, 02:23 PM, said:

distinct danger of getting to slam sans the requisite number of bangers. 4s as sub blackwood last train?

I disagree with this because with 2 Aces I basically will always bid slam anyway. So if partner bids slam we're only off 1 ace at the most.
Kevin Fay
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#16 User is offline   Pict 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 14:10

I'd pass 4H.
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#17 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 14:55

♠AKQJ ♥AKJxxx ♦A ♣Jx

First step -- can partner be lacking a cluib control? Sure. This 23-count qualifies.

Second step -- if the 5-level safe even if partner lacks a club control?

♠AKQ ♥AKJ10xxx ♦-- ♣Jxx

You can't exactly open this 1♥. Somewhat of a stretch, admittedly. Probably an easier one to construct.

Third step (my first step -- I don't need the other two) -- what are partnership rules as to cuebidding? If my 4♣ denied first or second-round club control, and if partner's 4♥ call rejected slam on that basis, then why would I bid past game even if the risk of a set requires some freak like a trump stack or a trump promotion or a void or some other strange possibility? If we lack club control, we lack club control.

The "asnwer" to this sort of question boils down to how your partnership handles these auctions. Personally, my opinion is that serious 3NT makes sense here but that nonetheless Opener cannot bid 4♥ after a denial of a control if he has that control, period. He either bids 4♥ the first time (and hopes for a call by you) or cues past 4♥ or something.

If systemically you want a general punt try (I want to invite slam but I don't want cuebidding principles to be corrupted), then perhaps an "impossible cue" makes sense.

For example, suppose the auction goes like this:

2♣-P-2♦-P-
2♥-P-3♥-P-
4♦

WTF?!?!? Right. Opener has no spade control and no club control. This is barely possible. ♠QJ ♥AKQJ10 ♦AKQJ ♣QJ does work, but with that could'nt Opener just bid 4♥?!?!?

I mean, arguably a 4♦ "cue" by Opener cannot logically make any sense as a slammish cue. That might therefore make more sense as a "problematic last train call." In other words, a hand with controls everywhere but general slam interest. (A friend of mine calls this a "wrap-around cue.")
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#18 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 15:57

I pass 4♥ and If I had to bid anything I think 5♥ would be my choice.

View Postwyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


View Postrbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#19 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 17:47

Pass looks good to me, assuming we are playing some sort of sensible cuebidding agreements. (Which I am not sure we are, given no 3NT over 3S. Even if it's not Serious, it's very handy as a "can you cuebid clubs or not, partner?" waiting bid.)
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#20 User is offline   pretzalz 

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Posted 2010-February-04, 18:06

Am I the only one that just wants to respond 2N to 2C and be done with it?
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