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best line

#1 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2010-January-29, 13:44

KQJ
AQxxx
---
Jxxxx

A987654
x
AJxx
x

Both vul, imps

The auction starts 1 (3) 3, and from there you and partner bid up to 6 somehow, with no more opponent bidding.

LHO leads K. Plan the play.
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#2 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2010-January-29, 13:57

edited:

Miscounted tricks lol. I would just hook a heart and then try to ruff 3 diamonds after pitching a club.
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#3 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-January-29, 16:27

hook heart x 2.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#4 User is offline   quiddity 

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Posted 2010-January-29, 16:35

One alternative is to win the DA and duck a club at trick 2. If West wins and leads a heart you can take the hook and haven't lost anything. On any other return you have 3 entries (2 diamond ruffs and a third trump) to try to set up a long club, and the heart ace serves as the entry to cash it after drawing trump.

This fails if trumps are 3-0 or if west has Tx of trumps and 3 or fewer clubs. Otherwise, even if the clubs don't break, the heart finesse is kept in reserve. But the fact that west can usually break up the line if it were working might be a reason to reject it.
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#5 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2010-January-29, 16:52

quiddity, on Jan 29 2010, 05:35 PM, said:

One alternative is to win the DA and duck a club at trick 2. If West wins and leads a heart you can take the hook and haven't lost anything. On any other return you have 3 entries (2 diamond ruffs and a third trump) to try to set up a long club, and the heart ace serves as the entry to cash it after drawing trump.

This fails if trumps are 3-0 or if west has Tx of trumps and 3 or fewer clubs. Otherwise, even if the clubs don't break, the heart finesse is kept in reserve. But the fact that west can usually break up the line if it were working might be a reason to reject it.

3-0 trumps also seems quite likely here, and if trumps are not 3-0 then clubs are often 5-2, and if RHO is actually 1273, then the HK was likely on to begin with.
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#6 User is offline   quiddity 

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Posted 2010-January-29, 17:04

oops, I didn't notice the auction. However, a bad club break is only relevant if West can overruff - since he is not the preemptor, I think that makes the line safer. The only relevant risk is the 3-0 trump break.

Edit: never mind - thinking about it more, I guess the chance of going down when the HK was onside outweighs the potential gain of RHO holding HK plus 3 clubs.
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#7 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-January-29, 17:34

Quiddity's line also works if LHO has five clubs, because there's a double squeeze. Win, lose a club to East, win the trump continuation in dummy, ruff two clubs in hand and two diamonds in dummy, cash trumps. If West has a club guard, nobody can keep K.

Quiddity's line gains when you can lose the first club to East, spades aren't 3-0, West has four or more clubs, and East has K.

It loses with spades 3-0 and K onside; or clubs 3=4, spades 10x=x, and K onside.

The layouts where you can force East to win the first club are few, so I'd go with the heart finesse.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#8 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 02:30

There's another problem with a club at trick two. After: club lost to East, trump won in dummy, club ruff, diamond ruff, the position is:

When you lead a diamond, West will throw his club winner, and you have to lose another trick.

If you're going to play this line, the answer is not to set the clubs up directly, but to rely on the double squeeze. Ruff a diamond at trick two, then play a club from dummy. Now the we take only two club ruffs in hand, and use the squeeze to set up the long club.

I'd still take the heart finesse at trick two, but the other plan is more interesting.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#9 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 23:20

I think the best line is to ruff at trick 1 and lead J from dummy. This maximizes the chance that RHO will win (cover or Ace) the club trick, preparing you for the double squeeze. Since the K was led, RHO may well hold K here. Best if you can do this quickly too.

Now, if small was led, the heart finesse should nearly always win, and therefore should be taken to guard against 3-0 trumps.
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#10 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-January-31, 04:41

Apollo81, on Jan 31 2010, 06:20 AM, said:

I think the best line is to ruff at trick 1 and lead J from dummy. This maximizes the chance that RHO will win (cover or Ace) the club trick, preparing you for the double squeeze.

Unless RHO plays the ace, won't LHO always be able to overtake safely?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#11 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2010-January-31, 09:57

gnasher, on Jan 31 2010, 05:41 AM, said:

Apollo81, on Jan 31 2010, 06:20 AM, said:

I think the best line is to ruff at trick 1 and lead J from dummy.  This maximizes the chance that RHO will win (cover or Ace) the club trick, preparing you for the double squeeze.

Unless RHO plays the ace, won't LHO always be able to overtake safely?

Yes, the question is not what will work best in theory, but what will work best against the average opponent.
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