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Is it ethical or illegal here?

#1 User is offline   cnszsun 

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Posted 2004-July-12, 18:34

Scoring: XIMP

You are sitting South:
You -- LHO -PARTNER- RHO
Pass - (1C) - 1NT - - (DBL)
Rdbl - (2C) - Pass - - (2D)
DBL - (2NT)- Pass - - (3NT)
Pass - (Pass)- Pass

I played with my partner quite a lot, and i knew he psyched sometimes.
Before RHO bid 3NT i don't know who is bluffing, so i bid just like my partner is a real 1NT overcaller. But at the last turn, i felt my partner is bluffing, so i passed.
My question is at this situation, is there any obligation on me from law or ethic, can i freely choose my call or should i tell opponents something?
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#2 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2004-July-12, 18:43

Here's my perspective:

Your XX over the opponent's X and your penalty double of 2D are the expected bids given a Strong NT overcall from partner.

Once the opponents have freely bid to 3NT, the supposition that partner psyched is general bridge knowledge.
Alderaan delenda est
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#3 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2004-July-12, 18:59

I agree with Richard here. You are entitled to make "Bridge" decisions and don't have to commit hari kiri.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#4 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2004-July-12, 20:50

You redbl 1NT for penatly. You double 2 for penalty, your partner makes a pass over 2NT and they bid 3NT. You make a "forcing pass" back to partner. You have told you story. Surely if your partner has a 1NT overcall he is going to double this real good. Your pass has nothing to do with "catching a psyche".

Ben
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#5 User is offline   McBruce 

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Posted 2004-July-12, 21:05

As far as I am aware, the only thing that could possibly apply here is the Rule of Coincidence. There is no Law compelling you to double based on what partner has shown. The most you can be hit with under the RoC is an adjustment in the number of tricks if the opponents have made a play that is based on your bidding. Look for the Rule of Coincidence on a search engine and you'll find something on point here.

However, the RoC is specifically not meant to apply to any but the clearest of situation where one partner has psyched, or made a non-system call, and the other partner has distorted his values to compensate. In this case, as other posters have pointed out, the auction itself tells you that there is a good chance that partner has psyched.
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#6 User is offline   BurnKryten 

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Posted 2004-July-12, 23:08

McBruce, on Jul 12 2004, 10:05 PM, said:

As far as I am aware, the only thing that could possibly apply here is the Rule of Coincidence.  There is no Law compelling you to double based on what partner has shown.  The most you can be hit with under the RoC is an adjustment in the number of tricks if the opponents have made a play that is based on your bidding.  Look for the Rule of Coincidence on a search engine and you'll find something on point here.

However, the RoC is specifically not meant to apply to any but the clearest of situation where one partner has psyched, or made a non-system call, and the other partner has distorted his values to compensate.  In this case, as other posters have pointed out, the auction itself tells you that there is a good chance that partner has psyched.

The "Rule of Coincidence" is something that came up in the ACBL years back - and according to my quick research on rec.games.bridge there currently is no such rule, and may never have been. In any case, an ACBL rule wouldn't apply to BBO, with the exception of ACBL run tourneys.

In any case, in the given auction, clearly someone has psyched, or a pinochle deck has made its way to the table. Even at your first call, holding 10 hcp, with the various other players promising 12+, 15-17, and 10+... let's see... 47+! Already your partner is the favorite to be the psycher, given that he has a passed hand partner. You clearly didn't allow for your partner to have psyched - with your redouble and double of diamonds, and your partner had ample opportunity to double himself and didn't do so. The auction and your hand make it clear that your partner has psyched, you don't have to be suicidal
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#7 User is offline   mishovnbg 

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Posted 2004-July-13, 01:23

It is ok imo. I can only add, that if you like you can alert your pass on 3NT like "I suppose 1NT from my p was psyche". Why? Because your normal bid is dbl and you pass based on knoledge about your partner can bluff sometimes and opps bids, not on your cards, which you show by bids already. Still dbl on 1NT CAN be psyche too, your rdbl can be taken as transfer for cl, dbl as lead directing for di and all that bids with few hcp... Shortly will be fair to inform opps that your pass on 3NT was based upon knoledge of your p habits.
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#8 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2004-July-13, 03:10

You bid twice in function of your partner's bid, and if someone psyched, it's the 1NT 3rd seat NV vs V! It's clear bridge judgement, and you shouldn't be obligated to Dbl because p psyched and you found out because of opps bids.

BTW, it's a poor psych anyway, you have 4*-3 for 500. Perhaps Dbl will get you there ;) but that would be 'exposing the psych'.
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#9 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2004-July-13, 03:57

BurnKryten, on Jul 13 2004, 08:08 AM, said:

McBruce, on Jul 12 2004, 10:05 PM, said:

As far as I am aware, the only thing that could possibly apply here is the Rule of Coincidence.  There is no Law compelling you to double based on what partner has shown.  The most you can be hit with under the RoC is an adjustment in the number of tricks if the opponents have made a play that is based on your bidding.  Look for the Rule of Coincidence on a search engine and you'll find something on point here.

However, the RoC is specifically not meant to apply to any but the clearest of situation where one partner has psyched, or made a non-system call, and the other partner has distorted his values to compensate.  In this case, as other posters have pointed out, the auction itself tells you that there is a good chance that partner has psyched.

The "Rule of Coincidence" is something that came up in the ACBL years back - and according to my quick research on rec.games.bridge there currently is no such rule, and may never have been. In any case, an ACBL rule wouldn't apply to BBO, with the exception of ACBL run tourneys.

In any case, in the given auction, clearly someone has psyched, or a pinochle deck has made its way to the table. Even at your first call, holding 10 hcp, with the various other players promising 12+, 15-17, and 10+... let's see... 47+! Already your partner is the favorite to be the psycher, given that he has a passed hand partner. You clearly didn't allow for your partner to have psyched - with your redouble and double of diamonds, and your partner had ample opportunity to double himself and didn't do so. The auction and your hand make it clear that your partner has psyched, you don't have to be suicidal

BurnKryten is dead on

The Rule of Coincidence was invented by the ACBL as a mechanism to discourage psyches. It continues to be included in ACBL propaganda about "Active Ethics". However, the Rule of Coincidence has no formal legal standing and is mocked in the legal circles. Its best considered in the same way as "Convention Disruption"

Here is a useful quote from Edgar Kaplan who was the most important figure in developing the Laws of Bridge in their modern form.

Edgar Kaplan wrote (*The Bridge World* November 1993), when this was
called the Rule of Coincidence

#####
In our view, the "Rule of Coincidence" *should* be unfamiliar to
everyone, since there ain't no such animal. The Laws are very clear: "A
player may make any call or play...provided that such call or play is
not based on a partnership understanding."
#####
Alderaan delenda est
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#10 User is offline   EarlPurple 

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Posted 2004-July-13, 04:28

I think it is clear that the only psycher here can be North. If West psyched his 1 bid (i.e. he doesn't have an opening bid) then why did he bid 2NT over 2 when he had been doubled. Obviously with a bad hand he would pass.

East would have no reason to go to 3NT if his earlier bidding had been psychic.

So the psych is exposed.

I do feel though that if players regularly overcall 1NT holding a weak-2 in an unspecified suit, it should become part of the system and be put on the convention card. If the call is not licensed then you simply shouldn't do it. You cannot use psyching as a legitimate way to bring an unlicensed method into your system. As you are a regular partnership I may be tempted to classify the psych as "amber" rather than "green".
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#11 User is offline   Gerben47 

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Posted 2004-July-13, 05:50

You did nothing wrong ethically.

[QUOTE}Before RHO bid 3NT i don't know who is bluffing, so i bid just like my partner is a real 1NT overcaller. [/QUOTE]

This is the correct behaviour.

[QUOTE]But at the last turn, i felt my partner is bluffing, so i passed.[/QUOTE]

This is allowed. It's obvious from the bidding. Besides, you have doubled 2[di] for penalty so your pass should be forcing.

As to the actual bidding, I like 2[sp] instead of redouble. The points can be 20-20 which is in my view insufficient to risk 1NT redoubled, especially with a certain fit. And if we have a fit, they have a fit, and we do not want to double them there.

I disagree with a poster who claims 4Sx is -500. In practice, who would bid that? Neither player has a singleton, the spades are bad and there is only a marginal fit. Besides, 4[sp] can go for 800 if the defenders find their [di] ruffs.

Gerben
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