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I could have done this as several polls, but there's too many questions. I have an idea what I think these bids mean, but since I usually play new minor forcing, I'd like to see if my 'standard' thinking is OK.
ASSUME: you are playing with a good partner but he will not play new minor forcing, preferring to use 3C and 3D as forcing and natural. Assume 2NT shows 18-19.
1. Is 1C-1H-2NT-3H forcing?
2. If the answer to #1 is yes, what is 1C-1H-2NT-3H-3S?
3. If the answer to #2 is cue-bid, does that imply that opener must rebid his own four-card spade suit with a balanced hand rather than 2NT?
4. If you think opener can bid 2NT with four spades, how does responder get to spades with 4-4?
5. If your answer to #5 is 3S by responder, how does opener decide between 3NT and 4H with three hearts?
6. If your answer to #1 is No, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 5-3 heart fit.
7. If your answer to #1 is No, and you think 2NT could have 4 spades, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 4-4 heart fit.
8. Be honest now. Did any of your answers change after reading a later question?
The auction after 2NT rebid without NMF What do certain bids mean?
#1
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Posted 2004-July-16, 18:09
I tend to lead fourth best - as opposed to the best suit, the second best suit, or the third best suit for our side
#2
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Posted 2004-July-16, 19:54
1) i'd say yes, forcing
2) 4225
3) no.. if 4234 i'd say 3nt
4) can't w/out playing wolff or something
5) not sure 4h is better than 3nt, but if bidding is 1c/1h/2nt/3s then responder shows 4/5 majors i think, so opener can just bid 4h with 3
6) i think 1c/1h/2nt/3c/3d/3h is not forcing and direct 3h is
7) don't think so, but i might have gotten confused on the bidding somewhere
2) 4225
3) no.. if 4234 i'd say 3nt
4) can't w/out playing wolff or something
5) not sure 4h is better than 3nt, but if bidding is 1c/1h/2nt/3s then responder shows 4/5 majors i think, so opener can just bid 4h with 3
6) i think 1c/1h/2nt/3c/3d/3h is not forcing and direct 3h is
7) don't think so, but i might have gotten confused on the bidding somewhere
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
#3
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Posted 2004-July-16, 22:19
1. Is 1C-1H-2NT-3H forcing?
Yes. However it would also be useful to have a method to play in 3♥. I use a modified Wolff sign-off.
2. If the answer to #1 is yes, what is 1C-1H-2NT-3H-3S?
I play this as 4-4 in the majors. This is much easier in a NMF or checkback enviroment but it is playable without those agreements.
3. If the answer to #2 is cue-bid, does that imply that opener must rebid his own four-card spade suit with a balanced hand rather than 2NT?
A cue-bid for what?
4. If you think opener can bid 2NT with four spades, how does responder get to spades with 4-4?
see 2 above.
5. If your answer to #5 is 3S by responder, how does opener decide between 3NT and 4H with three hearts?
3♠ shows 4-4 for me see 2 above so this is a non-decision.
6. If your answer to #1 is No, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 5-3 heart fit.
N/A
7. If your answer to #1 is No, and you think 2NT could have 4 spades, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 4-4 heart fit.
Do you mean spade fit?
8. Be honest now. Did any of your answers change after reading a later question?
Nope!
Yes. However it would also be useful to have a method to play in 3♥. I use a modified Wolff sign-off.
2. If the answer to #1 is yes, what is 1C-1H-2NT-3H-3S?
I play this as 4-4 in the majors. This is much easier in a NMF or checkback enviroment but it is playable without those agreements.
3. If the answer to #2 is cue-bid, does that imply that opener must rebid his own four-card spade suit with a balanced hand rather than 2NT?
A cue-bid for what?
4. If you think opener can bid 2NT with four spades, how does responder get to spades with 4-4?
see 2 above.
5. If your answer to #5 is 3S by responder, how does opener decide between 3NT and 4H with three hearts?
3♠ shows 4-4 for me see 2 above so this is a non-decision.
6. If your answer to #1 is No, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 5-3 heart fit.
N/A
7. If your answer to #1 is No, and you think 2NT could have 4 spades, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 4-4 heart fit.
Do you mean spade fit?
8. Be honest now. Did any of your answers change after reading a later question?
Nope!
Wayne Burrows
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#4
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Posted 2004-July-17, 10:13
Just 2 points:
- any bid by the responder is forcing;
- without an artificial method (such as Wolff-relay) there is no way to distinguish responder's 5♠5♥ from 5♠4♥ or 4♠5♥ from 4♠4♥. (Unless opener's 2nt denies 4card♠, of course).
I know, this thread is not about Wolff-relay. But I cannot resist to write about it.
Wolff relay does a good job defyning these hand types, though. Opener will respond 3M if he has a 3 card support for responder's Major, otherwise 3♦. Yes, even with 4 ♠, since responder can have a weak hand with hearts, and was going to sign-off in 3♥.
after 1m-1♥; 2nt:
Bidding 3♠ directly shows 4-5, and bidding it via Wolff-relay shows 4-4.
after 1m-1♠; 2nt:
Bidding 3♥ directly shows 5-5, and bidding it via Wolff-relay shows 5-4.
Also, slammish hands with a minor (either support or own suit) can be introduced.
Bidding 3♦ directly shows slammish with diamonds, while bidding 3nt via Wolff is slammish with clubs.
(So do not bid Wolff just to check if opener has a 3card support; if you are going to rebid 3nt, he'll take you for a slammish hand with clubs. You will know about the 3card support if you bid your major naturally, showing 5+ in a GF hand.)
- any bid by the responder is forcing;
- without an artificial method (such as Wolff-relay) there is no way to distinguish responder's 5♠5♥ from 5♠4♥ or 4♠5♥ from 4♠4♥. (Unless opener's 2nt denies 4card♠, of course).
I know, this thread is not about Wolff-relay. But I cannot resist to write about it.
Wolff relay does a good job defyning these hand types, though. Opener will respond 3M if he has a 3 card support for responder's Major, otherwise 3♦. Yes, even with 4 ♠, since responder can have a weak hand with hearts, and was going to sign-off in 3♥.
after 1m-1♥; 2nt:
Bidding 3♠ directly shows 4-5, and bidding it via Wolff-relay shows 4-4.
after 1m-1♠; 2nt:
Bidding 3♥ directly shows 5-5, and bidding it via Wolff-relay shows 5-4.
Also, slammish hands with a minor (either support or own suit) can be introduced.
Bidding 3♦ directly shows slammish with diamonds, while bidding 3nt via Wolff is slammish with clubs.
(So do not bid Wolff just to check if opener has a 3card support; if you are going to rebid 3nt, he'll take you for a slammish hand with clubs. You will know about the 3card support if you bid your major naturally, showing 5+ in a GF hand.)
gabika
#5
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Posted 2004-July-17, 15:02
Hi - I was hoping to find out what is considered "standard" for people that don't play conventions and got advertisements for conventions instead 
I know it's easier with conventions and I play one myself. However, for the newer player, artificiality is confusing. We have a student that won't ever bid 2C because he has heard on two different occasions that 2C is reserved for something else! (Once when learning weak 2 bids and the other time when learning the signoff bids over 1NT.) So, now the poor fellow won't overcall 2C, won't rebid 2C, etc. My theory is that newer players should get the basics down first before learning conventions (I guess I would make an exception for Stayman and Blackwood, since all their friends play them.)
In any event, I have ideas about how responder playing no artificial bids should respond over a 2NT rebid and I wanted to find out whether they were standard or a figment of my imagination. It's hard to find out the truth because everybody plays some convention here.
I think (assuming no conventions) that any bid over 2NT is forcing; you pay off when responder is weak and long in hearts. Responder bids 3H with 5 or more hearts, and opener, without 3 hearts, bids 3S on the way to 3NT with 4 spades. Responder bids 3S over 2NT to cater to 4-4 in the majors to cater to opener having bypassed them. I don't think any major suit fits are lost at the game level using these. Cascade seems to back up my position. If anyone else has an opinion on what is Standard (if no artificial conventions of any kind are allowed), please let me know.
It's a lot easier when responder bid 1S first - responder can bid 3H with 4H & 5S, and can bid 3S with 5S without 4H and can bid 4H with 5-5 with a fit guaranteed unless opener bid 2NT offshape. With a 5-5 mildly interested in slam, responder can bid 3H intending to correct 3NT to 4H but giving opener a chance to cuebid a minor with a great fit (oops - I guess that's artificial!)
I know it's easier with conventions and I play one myself. However, for the newer player, artificiality is confusing. We have a student that won't ever bid 2C because he has heard on two different occasions that 2C is reserved for something else! (Once when learning weak 2 bids and the other time when learning the signoff bids over 1NT.) So, now the poor fellow won't overcall 2C, won't rebid 2C, etc. My theory is that newer players should get the basics down first before learning conventions (I guess I would make an exception for Stayman and Blackwood, since all their friends play them.)
In any event, I have ideas about how responder playing no artificial bids should respond over a 2NT rebid and I wanted to find out whether they were standard or a figment of my imagination. It's hard to find out the truth because everybody plays some convention here.
I think (assuming no conventions) that any bid over 2NT is forcing; you pay off when responder is weak and long in hearts. Responder bids 3H with 5 or more hearts, and opener, without 3 hearts, bids 3S on the way to 3NT with 4 spades. Responder bids 3S over 2NT to cater to 4-4 in the majors to cater to opener having bypassed them. I don't think any major suit fits are lost at the game level using these. Cascade seems to back up my position. If anyone else has an opinion on what is Standard (if no artificial conventions of any kind are allowed), please let me know.
It's a lot easier when responder bid 1S first - responder can bid 3H with 4H & 5S, and can bid 3S with 5S without 4H and can bid 4H with 5-5 with a fit guaranteed unless opener bid 2NT offshape. With a 5-5 mildly interested in slam, responder can bid 3H intending to correct 3NT to 4H but giving opener a chance to cuebid a minor with a great fit (oops - I guess that's artificial!)
I tend to lead fourth best - as opposed to the best suit, the second best suit, or the third best suit for our side
#6
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Posted 2004-July-17, 16:20
If you don't want conventions then it is simplest if everything is forcing over 2NT.
1m 1M
2NT Pass if you dont want to play game else make a simple natural bid.
On most (natural) auctions I play that any non-jump suit bid over 2NT is forcing. There are a few exceptions:
1♠ 1NT
2NT ?
3m is non-forcing for me with a good hand and a minor I bid 3NT.
3♥ is forcing showing five hearts
3♠ is forcing showing some spade tolerance (usually three for me since I play four-card majors)
1m 1M
2NT Pass if you dont want to play game else make a simple natural bid.
On most (natural) auctions I play that any non-jump suit bid over 2NT is forcing. There are a few exceptions:
1♠ 1NT
2NT ?
3m is non-forcing for me with a good hand and a minor I bid 3NT.
3♥ is forcing showing five hearts
3♠ is forcing showing some spade tolerance (usually three for me since I play four-card majors)
Wayne Burrows
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#7
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Posted 2004-July-18, 13:25
1. Of course, since 2NT is game forcing already. It shows slam interest with 6+♥
2. 5+♥, 4+♠.
3. Keep it simple, bid 2NT with all stron balanced regardless of ♠ cards.
4. If you´ve got 4-4 in the majors you are gonna lose your 4-4 ♠ fit**.
5. Not aplicable, anyway don´t let opener decide ever, he is suposed to show.
6. I didn´t said no to #1, but I didn´t say 5 cards either, with only 5 card in a suit you are suposed to bid a forcing 3 card in a minor, after that opener will show support in your major, bid 3NT with 2-3 in your suits, or bid another suit with 2 cards in the major and 4+ in the minor.
7. I supose you mean 4-4 ♠ fit, as explained in #4 there is no way**.
8. I´ve build the system in progress from your questions, I´ve reconsidered the 3♠ rebid from responder after seeing I am losing the 4-4 fit but I found there is no need always:
**: with 44 in majors you can still bid a 3 card minor, hoping either opener has 4 in that minor+4♠, ,so he will bid 3♠, OR he has 3♥+4♠ and after 3♥ you can bid 3♠ showing some fake 3-suiter.
2. 5+♥, 4+♠.
3. Keep it simple, bid 2NT with all stron balanced regardless of ♠ cards.
4. If you´ve got 4-4 in the majors you are gonna lose your 4-4 ♠ fit**.
5. Not aplicable, anyway don´t let opener decide ever, he is suposed to show.
6. I didn´t said no to #1, but I didn´t say 5 cards either, with only 5 card in a suit you are suposed to bid a forcing 3 card in a minor, after that opener will show support in your major, bid 3NT with 2-3 in your suits, or bid another suit with 2 cards in the major and 4+ in the minor.
7. I supose you mean 4-4 ♠ fit, as explained in #4 there is no way**.
8. I´ve build the system in progress from your questions, I´ve reconsidered the 3♠ rebid from responder after seeing I am losing the 4-4 fit but I found there is no need always:
**: with 44 in majors you can still bid a 3 card minor, hoping either opener has 4 in that minor+4♠, ,so he will bid 3♠, OR he has 3♥+4♠ and after 3♥ you can bid 3♠ showing some fake 3-suiter.
#8
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Posted 2004-July-18, 19:20
Fluffy, on Jul 18 2004, 02:25 PM, said:
1. Of course, since 2NT is game forcing already.
2nt isnt forcing, and therfore isnt GF in most systems.
#9
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Posted 2004-July-19, 04:19
paulhar, on Jul 17 2004, 01:09 AM, said:
I could have done this as several polls, but there's too many questions. I have an idea what I think these bids mean, but since I usually play new minor forcing, I'd like to see if my 'standard' thinking is OK.
ASSUME: you are playing with a good partner but he will not play new minor forcing, preferring to use 3C and 3D as forcing and natural. Assume 2NT shows 18-19.
1. Is 1C-1H-2NT-3H forcing?
2. If the answer to #1 is yes, what is 1C-1H-2NT-3H-3S?
3. If the answer to #2 is cue-bid, does that imply that opener must rebid his own four-card spade suit with a balanced hand rather than 2NT?
4. If you think opener can bid 2NT with four spades, how does responder get to spades with 4-4?
5. If your answer to #5 is 3S by responder, how does opener decide between 3NT and 4H with three hearts?
6. If your answer to #1 is No, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 5-3 heart fit.
7. If your answer to #1 is No, and you think 2NT could have 4 spades, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 4-4 heart fit.
8. Be honest now. Did any of your answers change after reading a later question?
ASSUME: you are playing with a good partner but he will not play new minor forcing, preferring to use 3C and 3D as forcing and natural. Assume 2NT shows 18-19.
1. Is 1C-1H-2NT-3H forcing?
2. If the answer to #1 is yes, what is 1C-1H-2NT-3H-3S?
3. If the answer to #2 is cue-bid, does that imply that opener must rebid his own four-card spade suit with a balanced hand rather than 2NT?
4. If you think opener can bid 2NT with four spades, how does responder get to spades with 4-4?
5. If your answer to #5 is 3S by responder, how does opener decide between 3NT and 4H with three hearts?
6. If your answer to #1 is No, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 5-3 heart fit.
7. If your answer to #1 is No, and you think 2NT could have 4 spades, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 4-4 heart fit.
8. Be honest now. Did any of your answers change after reading a later question?
1. Is 1C-1H-2NT-3H forcing?
Yes, even slam try!
2. If the answer to #1 is yes, what is 1C-1H-2NT-3H-3S?
Cue, 3H is slam try...
3. If the answer to #2 is cue-bid, does that imply that opener must rebid his own four-card spade suit with a balanced hand rather than 2NT?
No, if responder has 4 ♠'s, he could bid 3♠ instead of 3♥, showing 4-4M (maybe 5♥'s)
4. If you think opener can bid 2NT with four spades, how does responder get to spades with 4-4?
Read above.
5. If your answer to #5 is 3S by responder, how does opener decide between 3NT and 4H with three hearts?
With 3♥'s, just bid 3NT. If responder has 5 ♥'s, he can still bid them since you have at least 2 card support.
8. Be honest now. Did any of your answers change after reading a later question?
Not really. The only thing I might change is to bid 1♠ with a 4 card ♠, to make it easier after a 2NT rebid. However, after 1♣-1♥-1♠-1[NT] you'll get similar problems with partner having a 5 card ♥ imo.
Just play checkback and all these troubles are gone...
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
#10
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Posted 2004-July-19, 15:58
Cascade, on Jul 17 2004, 04:19 PM, said:
2. If the answer to #1 is yes, what is 1C-1H-2NT-3H-3S?
I play this as 4-4 in the majors. This is much easier in a NMF or checkback enviroment but it is playable without those agreements.
I play this as 4-4 in the majors. This is much easier in a NMF or checkback enviroment but it is playable without those agreements.
Whoops reading another post in this thread I realized that I mis-read this auction.
1♣ 1♥
2NT 3♠ this is what I play as 4-4 in the majors.
1♣ 1♥
2NT 3♥
3♠ I would play this as four-card spade suit and not heart support.
1♣ 1♥
2NT 3♥ Can be based on a five-card heart suit but is forcing.
1♣ 1♥
2NT 4♥ This shows a six-card heart suit and little slam interest
1♣ 1♥
2NT 3♥
3NT 4♥ This shows a six-card heart suit with some slam interest
Wayne Burrows
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#11
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Posted 2004-July-20, 03:53
"If anyone else has an opinion on what is Standard (if no artificial conventions of any kind are allowed), please let me know."
Of course you can use horse instead of automobile, the only problem your life can be not enough long to reach destinition
. I wonder why people learn to drive automobile, instead of using own legs only ? Are they not afraid of mistakes? Catastrophes? Shortly - lack of science&technique will never be right way for nobody.
Misho
Of course you can use horse instead of automobile, the only problem your life can be not enough long to reach destinition
. I wonder why people learn to drive automobile, instead of using own legs only ? Are they not afraid of mistakes? Catastrophes? Shortly - lack of science&technique will never be right way for nobody.Misho
MishoVnBg
#12
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Posted 2004-July-20, 05:46
1. Is 1C-1H-2NT-3H forcing?
No, if we play strong jump shifts and no artificial sign-off, it's non-forcing.
2. If the answer to #1 is yes, what is 1C-1H-2NT-3H-3S?
Probably a cue. I can't immagine what else it might be.
3. If the answer to #2 is cue-bid, does that imply that opener must rebid his own four-card spade suit with a balanced hand rather than 2NT?
Well, if we don't play NMF I think opener should rebid 1sp.
4. If you think opener can bid 2NT with four spades, how does responder get to spades with 4-4?
He doesn't.
5. If your answer to #5 is 3S by responder, how does opener decide between 3NT and 4H with three hearts?
He doesn't.
6. If your answer to #1 is No, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 5-3 heart fit.
By improvising NMF even if we don't play it. I've seen some smart beginners doing that even if they have never heard of NMF.
7. If your answer to #1 is No, and you think 2NT could have 4 spades, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 4-4 heart fit.
He couldn't.
8. Be honest now. Did any of your answers change after reading a later question?
No but I'm still a little bid confused.
No, if we play strong jump shifts and no artificial sign-off, it's non-forcing.
2. If the answer to #1 is yes, what is 1C-1H-2NT-3H-3S?
Probably a cue. I can't immagine what else it might be.
3. If the answer to #2 is cue-bid, does that imply that opener must rebid his own four-card spade suit with a balanced hand rather than 2NT?
Well, if we don't play NMF I think opener should rebid 1sp.
4. If you think opener can bid 2NT with four spades, how does responder get to spades with 4-4?
He doesn't.
5. If your answer to #5 is 3S by responder, how does opener decide between 3NT and 4H with three hearts?
He doesn't.
6. If your answer to #1 is No, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 5-3 heart fit.
By improvising NMF even if we don't play it. I've seen some smart beginners doing that even if they have never heard of NMF.
7. If your answer to #1 is No, and you think 2NT could have 4 spades, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 4-4 heart fit.
He couldn't.
8. Be honest now. Did any of your answers change after reading a later question?
No but I'm still a little bid confused.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
#13
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Posted 2004-July-20, 07:08
1. Is 1C-1H-2NT-3H forcing?
Probably should be. At least if we play weak jump shifts, then partner could have made one first round if he has nothing but a weak hand with a string of hearts. But are we playing them? And if not how does he bid such a hand?
2. If the answer to #1 is yes, what is 1C-1H-2NT-3H-3S?
4 spades and only 2 hearts in case partner is 4-5 in the majors?
3. If the answer to #2 is cue-bid, does that imply that opener must rebid his own four-card spade suit with a balanced hand rather than 2NT?
No because we can find our spade fit at the 3-level.
4. If you think opener can bid 2NT with four spades, how does responder get to spades with 4-4?
At the 3-level?
5. If your answer to #5 is 3S by responder, how does opener decide between 3NT and 4H with three hearts?
This is #5. But I presume you mean if responder bids 3♠ over 2NT - then he is showing only 4 hearts because with 5 he presumably rebids them and waits to see if I can bid the spades.
6. If your answer to #1 is No, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 5-3 heart fit.
7. If your answer to #1 is No, and you think 2NT could have 4 spades, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 4-4 heart fit.
N/A because my answer to #1 is yes.
8. Be honest now. Did any of your answers change after reading a later question?
Not really. If we choose to play it simple we have to put up with its limitations. Also we have to bare in mind that the bids without nmf have different meanings than they would if we were playing nmf.
Probably should be. At least if we play weak jump shifts, then partner could have made one first round if he has nothing but a weak hand with a string of hearts. But are we playing them? And if not how does he bid such a hand?
2. If the answer to #1 is yes, what is 1C-1H-2NT-3H-3S?
4 spades and only 2 hearts in case partner is 4-5 in the majors?
3. If the answer to #2 is cue-bid, does that imply that opener must rebid his own four-card spade suit with a balanced hand rather than 2NT?
No because we can find our spade fit at the 3-level.
4. If you think opener can bid 2NT with four spades, how does responder get to spades with 4-4?
At the 3-level?
5. If your answer to #5 is 3S by responder, how does opener decide between 3NT and 4H with three hearts?
This is #5. But I presume you mean if responder bids 3♠ over 2NT - then he is showing only 4 hearts because with 5 he presumably rebids them and waits to see if I can bid the spades.
6. If your answer to #1 is No, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 5-3 heart fit.
7. If your answer to #1 is No, and you think 2NT could have 4 spades, explain how a game-going responder is supposed to get to a 4-4 heart fit.
N/A because my answer to #1 is yes.
8. Be honest now. Did any of your answers change after reading a later question?
Not really. If we choose to play it simple we have to put up with its limitations. Also we have to bare in mind that the bids without nmf have different meanings than they would if we were playing nmf.
You can't keep a good man down
#14
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Posted 2004-July-21, 03:14
Yes, this seems to be a correct way.
With 5-5, however, you have some problems, unless you you can bid 3H, 4H, hoping that opener is not 22(45).
With 5-5, however, you have some problems, unless you you can bid 3H, 4H, hoping that opener is not 22(45).
gabika
#15
- Group: Yellows
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- Gender:Male
- Location:New Zealand
- Interests:Juggling, Unicycling
Posted 2004-July-21, 04:16
With 2245 partner has the option of reversing into 2♦.
So the problem hands are 2236 with poor clubs.
2254 and 2263 might cause some problems after a 1♦ opening.
So the problem hands are 2236 with poor clubs.
2254 and 2263 might cause some problems after a 1♦ opening.
Wayne Burrows
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#16
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- Location:London
Posted 2004-July-22, 12:21
The problem seems to be with the auction
1C - 1S - 2NT - 3H
which may show 4 or 5 hearts.
With 4-card support I will obviously bid 4H. With 3 I will go 3NT, and partner will presumably push on to 4H.
And I might have a long suit in clubs, possibly even solid, and only a doubleton in both hearts and spades. And in NT we may be making 9 tricks but not 10. After all, what should I rebid with this:
♠ Qx ♥ Jx ♦KJx ♣AKQJxx
if partner has this opposite:
♠ KTxxx ♥ AKxxx ♦ xx ♣ x
and I get the obvious diamond lead to hand, I have 9 tricks to run.
Difficult hand to bid, I know.
1C - 1S - 2NT - 3H
which may show 4 or 5 hearts.
With 4-card support I will obviously bid 4H. With 3 I will go 3NT, and partner will presumably push on to 4H.
And I might have a long suit in clubs, possibly even solid, and only a doubleton in both hearts and spades. And in NT we may be making 9 tricks but not 10. After all, what should I rebid with this:
♠ Qx ♥ Jx ♦KJx ♣AKQJxx
if partner has this opposite:
♠ KTxxx ♥ AKxxx ♦ xx ♣ x
and I get the obvious diamond lead to hand, I have 9 tricks to run.
Difficult hand to bid, I know.
You can't keep a good man down
#17
- Group: Advanced Members
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- Joined: 2004-June-05
Posted 2004-July-22, 19:22
EarlPurple, on Jul 22 2004, 01:21 PM, said:
The problem seems to be with the auction
1C - 1S - 2NT - 3H
which may show 4 or 5 hearts.
With 4-card support I will obviously bid 4H. With 3 I will go 3NT, and partner will presumably push on to 4H.
And I might have a long suit in clubs, possibly even solid, and only a doubleton in both hearts and spades. And in NT we may be making 9 tricks but not 10. After all, what should I rebid with this:
♠ Qx ♥ Jx ♦KJx ♣AKQJxx
if partner has this opposite:
♠ KTxxx ♥ AKxxx ♦ xx ♣ x
and I get the obvious diamond lead to hand, I have 9 tricks to run.
Difficult hand to bid, I know.
1C - 1S - 2NT - 3H
which may show 4 or 5 hearts.
With 4-card support I will obviously bid 4H. With 3 I will go 3NT, and partner will presumably push on to 4H.
And I might have a long suit in clubs, possibly even solid, and only a doubleton in both hearts and spades. And in NT we may be making 9 tricks but not 10. After all, what should I rebid with this:
♠ Qx ♥ Jx ♦KJx ♣AKQJxx
if partner has this opposite:
♠ KTxxx ♥ AKxxx ♦ xx ♣ x
and I get the obvious diamond lead to hand, I have 9 tricks to run.
Difficult hand to bid, I know.
Another "Am I weird" question.
My partner and I, who use NMNF, play "up the line" with the exception of 5-5. Therefore,
1♣ 1♠
2NT 3♥ shows 5 hearts and 5 spades, while
1♣ 1♥
2NT 3♠ shows 4 hearts and 5 spades.
The 2NT bid over 1♥ denies 4 spades, so there's no need to show the 4th spade.
This makes your example hand easy: it's the first auction mentioned above, followed by 3NT.
Am I the only person who plays this?
#18
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Posted 2004-July-22, 20:02
"Am I the only person who plays this?"
If I really do read what you write correctly, then the answer is "Yes"
Playing possible canape up the line is weird and theoretically unsound.
If I really do read what you write correctly, then the answer is "Yes"
Playing possible canape up the line is weird and theoretically unsound.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#19
- 5555
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Posted 2004-July-22, 21:35
I am quite happy with Wolff-signoff over the 2NT rebid after a minor opening:
3♣ is relay to 3♦ for all get-out hands (only way except pass to stop below game)
3♦ is new minor forcing
Everything else is natural and FG.
In your auction, 3♥ would show 5 hearts, as with 5 spades and 4 hearts you would bid NMF. 3♠ would imply 6 spades (with 5 use NMF) and slam interest (else 4♠).
3♣ is relay to 3♦ for all get-out hands (only way except pass to stop below game)
3♦ is new minor forcing
Everything else is natural and FG.
In your auction, 3♥ would show 5 hearts, as with 5 spades and 4 hearts you would bid NMF. 3♠ would imply 6 spades (with 5 use NMF) and slam interest (else 4♠).
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
#20
- Group: Yellows
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- Location:New Zealand
- Interests:Juggling, Unicycling
Posted 2004-July-23, 00:20
I play a modified Wolff sign-off that I am very happy with:
After
1m 1M
2NT ...
3♣ promises five of Major - can be weak or strong opener rebids as follows
3♦ denies three cards in the major - responder can pass or correct to 3M or 3♥ after 1♠ originally - all of these actions are weak. Any other action is strong - 3♠ after 1♥ shows 45 in Majors.
3M shows three-card support - responder can pass or bid game or try for slam
3♦ = natural GF
3♥ = natural GF 54 after 1♠, 6 hearts after 1♥
3♠ = natural GF 6 spades after 1♠, 44 in Majors after 1♥
After
1m 1M
2NT ...
3♣ promises five of Major - can be weak or strong opener rebids as follows
3♦ denies three cards in the major - responder can pass or correct to 3M or 3♥ after 1♠ originally - all of these actions are weak. Any other action is strong - 3♠ after 1♥ shows 45 in Majors.
3M shows three-card support - responder can pass or bid game or try for slam
3♦ = natural GF
3♥ = natural GF 54 after 1♠, 6 hearts after 1♥
3♠ = natural GF 6 spades after 1♠, 44 in Majors after 1♥
Wayne Burrows
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon