[straube]

TOSR uses 1C-1D, 1H-1S, 2C (GF)-2D as a balanced hand. They prohibit responder's hand from bidding 2N. They also aren't able to show the residue with a 5/4 pattern. Anyway, I like their structure and agree that one should be asking responder's pattern and not whether they have as much as a king or queen.

2D-4 hearts
.....2S-4 spades
.....2N-4 clubs
.....3C-diamond reverser (i.e. 4H/5+D)
.....3D-5+H/5+D
.....3H-5+H/4D, higher shortness
.....3S-5+H/4D, lower shortness

2H-4 spades
.....2N-4 clubs
.....3C-diamond reverser
.....etc

2S-balanced (including 5422s)
.....2N-
..........3C-puppet stayman
..........transfers

2N-minors
.....3D-reverser
.....3H-5+/5+
.....3S-5+D/4C, higher shortness
.....3N-5+D/4C, lower shortness

3C-4441s (and 5m440s)
.....3H-1444
.....3S-4144
.....3N-4414
.....4C-4441

3D-6 hearts
.....3S-balanced
.....3N-highest shortness
.....4C-middle shortness
.....4D-lowest shortness

3H-6 spades
.....etc

3S-6 clubs
3N-6 diamonds

I've thought about having the 2N bid show both majors as it wrong-sides hands with both minors, but I'm not sure it's worth the memory trouble.

What are other people using after a second negative?

[shevek]

We give up relay here for 2 reasons
1. Rare, memory impost
2. Structure is up 3 steps

No 3rd negative, mostly natural.
2♦ = no suit to show, mostly balanced. Bad to bid 2♠ with these, which inhibits opener's ability to show shape. (Give opener 4-5-3-1)

[straube]

shevek, on Jan 30 2010, 04:41 PM, said:

We give up relay here for 2 reasons
1. Rare, memory impost
2. Structure is up 3 steps

No 3rd negative, mostly natural.
2♦ = no suit to show, mostly balanced. Bad to bid 2♠ with these, which inhibits opener's ability to show shape. (Give opener 4-5-3-1)

I'm envisioning the 2C GF as showing a balanced hand (or 4441 or (31)(54)).

With 4-5-3-1 GF, I might bid...

1C-1D, 1H-1S, 2D (Hs)-2H, 2S-2N, 3D

[shevek]

Fair enough.
Do you want me to put you in touch with Mark Abraham?