[vuroth]

Scoring: IMP

Opponents silent

---

If this seems completely wtp

Spoiler

I messed this up at the table after 1D 1H 1S. (Never splinter in partner's suit!) that said, after 2C fsf what happens?

1D 1H
1S 2C
2H what?

I can picture about 5 different auctions, some of which cue bid, some of which just bid 4S to limit, but I'm far from clear in my head how to proceed after 4sf with a hand with some slam interest.

[pooltuna]

vuroth, on Jan 11 2010, 09:45 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

Opponents silent

---

[snip]

If south opens
North South
- 1D
1H 1S
2C 2H
4S

If south elects to pass
North South
- P
1C 1S
3S 4S

[hanp]

I think I would bid 4D (splinter) over 1S but you'd better be sure that partner is on the same wavelength.

2C is certainly fine and after 2H you know partner has short clubs, bad news. I would still try a little with 2S and then some cuebid later, but south wouldn't cooperate and north wouldn't go past 4S by himself so it seems like there are many ways that all lead to the same contract, 4S.

edit: I would bid 3D instead of 3S in pooltuna's second auction. If you play it as an invitational splinter then I don't understand bidding anything but 3D.

[jdonn]

1♦ 1♥
1♠ 2♣
2♥ 2♠
Spades are trumps now. The bid after bidding 4th suit forcing sets the trump suit in general. Remember that rule and 4th suit forcing becomes a lot easier.

The bidding after that is a matter of style and judgment (does south bid 3♦ showing an extra, 3♠ because his diamonds are so bad, 4♠ because he is a minimum, etc.) but that is much less important than understanding how to set the trump suit and what is trumps in a given auction. After 2♠ there are tons of possible auctions, and all should lead to 4♠.

North bidding anything but 2♠ over 2♥ would be quite bad imo. Why save all that room with 4SF then just waste it the next round? You might as well raise 1♠ directly to 4♠ (or bid 4♦ splinter) in that case.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I will give it a try, system something like SAYC, no fancy stuff.

1D - 1H
1S (1) - 2C (2)
2H (3) - 3S (4)
4H (5) - 4NT (6)
5H (7) - 5S (corrected)

(1) 2H is ok as well, but this makes life more difficult,
you have an easy path to show your strength and distribution,
1S followed by 2H, so 1S,
(2) FSF - if you have to, GF, but it does not really matter
(3) min, but 4432 is still possible
(4) should set spades as trumps, it can be argued, that 2S would
already do the job
(5) cue, showing a top honor - denies top honors in diamonds, club
shortage still possible
(6) RKCB - North sees, that there wont be a lot of wastage in diamonds,
at most QJ i.e. he can expect at least 8-9 HCP in the majors
(7) 2KC

The only real "fancy" agreement is, that the first cue should show a top
honor, which I highly recommend.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Added later - ok I gues FSF GF does make a difference, reading the
previous posts, oh well. BBF teaches me something - never ever switch
to FSF GF.
Playing 2C as inv.+ it is clear that 2H showes a min., and if opener has
limited its hand, he can and should make the heart cue, after all he has
already limited his hand, working 10HCP and his shape is pretty obvious,
i.e. he wont mislead p.
Now the crucial point is, does 2H show a min. opener, playing 2C as GF?
I would highly recommend, that openers answer to the 4th suit also tells
something about min / max, otherwise after a lot of space preserving bids
you reach the ? level, with both players still being unlimited.

[neilkaz]

Marlowe.. unless I am blind, your sequence is leading to a slam off two cashing aces.

[Bende]

1♦ - 1♥;
2♥ - 2NT (forcing);
3♠ - 4♠;
pass

[kgr]

P_Marlowe, on Jan 11 2010, 06:20 PM, said:

Hi,

I will give it a try, system something like SAYC, no fancy stuff.

1D - 1H
1S (1) - 2C (2)
2H (3) - 3S (4)
4H (5) - 4NT (6)
5H (7) - 6S

Is 6S a gamble with 2 KCs missing or did you have a bidding misunderstanding with yourself (...will that be UI or AI?).

[P_Marlowe]

neilkaz, on Jan 11 2010, 11:31 AM, said:

Marlowe.. unless I am blind, your sequence is leading to a slam off two cashing aces.

You are of course right, 5S instead of 6S, I will correct this.

But who cares to be -1 in the bidding. .
A brilliant thing to tell them later, that they could have cashed their
two Aces, and who wants to win the bord, if has the opportunity instead
to be able to tell a good story.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

kgr, on Jan 11 2010, 11:38 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Jan 11 2010, 06:20 PM, said:

Hi,

I will give it a try, system something like SAYC, no fancy stuff.

1D      - 1H
1S (1) - 2C (2)
2H (3) - 3S (4)
4H (5) - 4NT (6)
5H (7) - 6S

Is 6S a gamble with 2 KCs missing or did you have a bidding misunderstanding with yourself (...will that be UI or AI?).

How about, I am a mathematician, and it is a well known thing,
that mathematicians cant count?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Siegmund]

As posted, I think
1♦-1♥
1♠-4♦
4♠-pass

is indeed completely WTP.

Having no way to make a forcing spade raise (or not knowing what to do on the third round after FSFing) is indeed "TP." (I think Richard Pavlicek and I are the last two people alive who actually like to play responder's jumps as forcing and put all the inv hands through FSF -but the more slam zone trouble hands I see posted on fora, the more I become convinced that people made a big mistake to abandon them.)

[Codo]

1 ♦ 1 ♥
1 ♠ 2♣ (4.sf- game forcing)
2♥ 2♠ (3 Hearts - 4 Spades)
3♣ 3♥ (Club control - Heart control, no diamond honour
4♠ 4 NT (No diamond control-RCKB
5 ♥ 5 ♠ (2 KCS - -sign off)

[Mbodell]

playing standard I think I go P - 1♣ - 1♦ - 1♥ - 1♠ - 3♠ - 4♠ or maybe 4♣/♥ over 3♠ before hitting 4♠.

[mike777]

vuroth, on Jan 11 2010, 09:45 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

Opponents silent

---

If this seems completely wtp

Spoiler

I messed this up at the table after 1D 1H 1S.  (Never splinter in partner's suit!)  that said, after 2C fsf what happens?

1D 1H
1S 2C
2H what?

I can picture about 5 different auctions, some of which cue bid, some of which just bid 4S to limit, but I'm far from clear in my head how to proceed after 4sf with a hand with some slam interest.

1d=1h
1s=3s(gf)
4s=p


KISS