[cnszsun]

Scoring: XIMP

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You are sitting South:
You -- LHO -PARTNER- RHO
Pass - (Pass) - 1C - - (1H)
DBL - (2H) - - 2S - - (pass)
Pass - (Pass)

Don't try to tell me i should bid 1♠, instead of DBL. We're just pickup partner, so i believe DBL here to show 4 spades is more standard.
I think North's hand is between 2♠ and 3♠ response, South's hand between Pass and raise to 3♠.
My question is who should bid more aggressively?

[luke warm]

this probably won't be popular opinion, but i think everybody did fine ... hands fit perfectly *this* time... 2S looks fine to me

[inquiry]

North's hand clear 3♠ call. Do Zar points... it is 10 points (two levels) better than a bare opening bid.

Ben

[nikos59]

I am not so sure about all this... let's suppose there is
no intervention, then it goes:
1C - 1S
2S(?) - pass (?)

I am not sure North is worth a 3S rebid without the intervention
and the overcall has not improved much North's hand.

If you are so keen on applying charges, then it is perhaps *South*
who could make a forward move, on the strength of his club
fit. But I would absolve both partners -if this is the worst
bidding blunder you make, I don't want to play against you

[the hog]

Nth has a 6 loser hand and should bid 3S. Sth has a perfectly reasonable pass of 2S.

[Cascade]

It is much easier if 1♣ is natural and not short then South knows that there is a double fit.

I would raise to 3♠ with the South hand on the actual auction.

[Rado]

Hi all
In my view after 1♥ overcall and 2♥ fit, the North hand imroves a little since it has 3 small ♥ vs partners possible doubleton or singleton. So all N's cards are expected to work in full value and 3♠ bid is the good one
Regards
Rado

[EricK]

Cascade, on Jul 9 2004, 06:55 AM, said:

It is much easier if 1♣ is natural and not short then South knows that there is a double fit.

I would raise to 3♠ with the South hand on the actual auction.

If the double promised 4 spades, then why not bid 3♣ on the south hand, then partner knows about the double fit, and so can bid on in the actual case where his ♣ are genuine, and make a cautious pass when they are not.

Eric

[Chamaco]

I think North's invitation 3♠ is good only on a double dummy basis, as we know of the double fit, but it is terrible and plain wrong if we have no side suit fit.

If South has the following hand (not unlikely), with duplication of values in spades and misfit diamonds honors, even 3 spades is not safe.

♠ KJT2
♥ J4
♦ KJxxx
♣ xx

Therefore I believe the optimist should be South, the one who knows of the club fit, and N cannot bid 3S: south with his double promises a minimum of a 9 loser's hand, so N needs a 5.5 loser's hand to jump.
Without a known club fit, North's hand is closer to 6.5 losers (1/1.5 in spades, 3 in H, 2/2.5 in clubs).
If South has reasons to be optimistic (either double fitt or 8 loser's hand), he will talk again.

I like the point of EricK, who suggests a 3♣ bid by South to show the double fit, having already promised a 4 card spades fit, letting North decide now.

[whereagles]

I would have tried 3S with North's cards as well. Besides, I'd be playing the hand

[Trpltrbl]

North should bid 3♠. South has nothing but a pass after 2♠.

Mike

[EarlPurple]

With North's hand I don't know what partner's fit is for clubs, but I know he should be relatively short in hearts. Anyway the hand is far too strong for 2♠ so I should probably bid 3♠.

[tysen2k]

Chamaco, on Jul 9 2004, 02:59 AM, said:

If South has the following hand (not unlikely), with duplication of values in spades and misfit diamonds honors, even 3 spades is not safe.

♠ KJT2 
♥ J4 
♦ KJxxx 
♣ xx 

Exactly. North has more than a minimum, but not enough to jump to 3♠. It's the club fit that makes these hands better. North has no clue about that.

Tysen

[Free]

South clearly underbid, North did just fine imo.

North has 3 losers in ♥, ok, probably only 2, and some crap hand which is blocking the ♦ suit all over the place.
South has a possible double fit (also depends on the basic system) and 9 HCP. Enough for an invitation imo.

[EarlPurple]

I have encountered this before and have normally prescribed the following:

- 2♠ by North is no more than competitive.

- 2NT is "good/bad" showing extra shape but not extra values. I think it may be the right bid here, followed by 3♠. Over 2NT South may well bid 3♣ and North can now bid 3♠. South should raise this to 4♠.

- Dbl here would show a strong hand. It would probably deny 4 spades, though you might bid it on a 4-3-3-3 18-count.

- 3♣ would be a good hand (better than opening) with nothing but clubs.

- 3♠ would be a good hand with 4 spades. Should be stronger than 2NT followed by 3♠. Perhaps you are not strong enough to do that here.

- 3♦ would be a second suit, extra values.

- 3♥ should be an enquiry for 3NT if partner has heart stops?

By the way, hands like this illustrate the strength of playing a weak NT. On a hand like that one North can simply bid 2♠ competitively and South knows that his partner does not have a balanced 12-14 hand.

[Fluffy]

luke warm, on Jul 9 2004, 02:10 AM, said:

this probably won't be popular opinion, but i think everybody did fine ... hands fit perfectly *this* time... 2S looks fine to me

I am with you jimmy, nobody did bad here.

3♠ is an option, but only when X shows 100% 4♠, and the natural meaning is either 4♠ OR balanced without stopper.