[Wackojack]

Scoring: IMP

---

After 2 passes RHO opens 1♣ and you overcall 3NT

[P_Marlowe]

Foolish.

You risk a possible plus score, and you have two open suits,
do you think you can make it?

What is wrong with diamonds?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Jlall]

lol

[gwnn]

I never understood why poker bidding is deemed to be even worse than foolish. There is a lot of maths involved in analyzing poker, maybe more than bridge bidding. 3NT has huge negative pot odds attached to it (there's a nonzero possibility of us missing grand whilst going down in 3NT for instance) and it's just bad.

[Ant590]

No bid justifies an opponent walking out, but 3NT is a bit WOW. Surely it can never win in the long-run.

[cherdanno]

3NT is a good laugh when it works (like a penalty double of a strong 1NT with 8 hcp), but someone who never tell your neighbors and friends about. (Not to speak of posting it on BBF!)

[whereagles]

3NT is wtp to me. It usually pays off to have a reputation as a bluffer, so you should do it once in a while and this hand seems just about right for it.

[pooltuna]

Wackojack, on Jan 7 2010, 05:40 AM, said:

Dealer: West Vul: N/S Scoring: IMP

♠ K10 ♥   ♦ AKQJ9842 ♣ 742

After 2 passes RHO opens 1♣ and you overcall 3NT

Nothing justifies #5 IMO. FINISH THE HAND!!! If you are still unhappy just says thanks and leave. Make notes if you don't want to play again with anyone.

Edit: and I agree with Tony about team games and tourneys

[Old York]

I would think that walking out during the hand would be inexcusable and bordering on seriously bad behaviour
Leaving at the end of the hand would be perfectly normal behaviour unless playing in a tournament or team match
If the opening bid had been 1♠, then the 3NT bid is a fair gamble, the "gambling 3NT overcall" is well known and it was 100% obvious that you held solid diamonds
On a Club lead, you seem to be 5 down vulnerable, but oppo cannot double you, but they have not even got any game for themselves.... 3♠ was down on a heart lead, so even 1 down doubled in 5♦ was a foolish result

I would have voted for #5 if the correct wording had been used:-
Spiv/poker bidding that justifies opponents leaving at the end of the hand
or
Spiv/poker bidding that justifies partner leaving at the end of the hand

Tony

Edited
I strongly object to your unfounded attack on your opponent's ethics by implying that they left during the hand. An examination of the hand record proves this to be a lie

[Old York]

gwnn, on Jan 7 2010, 12:33 PM, said:

I never understood why poker bidding is deemed to be even worse than foolish. There is a lot of maths involved in analyzing poker, maybe more than bridge bidding. 3NT has huge negative pot odds attached to it (there's a nonzero possibility of us missing grand whilst going down in 3NT for instance) and it's just bad.

Genuine Poker bidding has its place at the bridge table. Poker is all about calculating the risk.
The risk of a good result weighed intelligently against the risk of failure.
Added to this is the reasonable calculation that you will push your opponents too high, again... a good result

Psyching a club stop at a friendly table is gonna make enemies, tho... perhaps it should'nt and perhaps we should all have a good laugh about it in a spirit of comradery, but that only works if all 4 players are friends, and can enjoy a bit of banter

Tony

[gwnn]

I agree with that Old York but people use the word as a substitute to "ultimately bad". See the poll choices here where obvious is number 1 and Poker is worst in the world, worse than foolish..

[pooltuna]

Old York, on Jan 7 2010, 09:09 AM, said:

I would think that walking out during the hand would be inexcusable and bordering on seriously bad behaviour
Leaving at the end of the hand would be perfectly normal behaviour unless playing in a tournament or team match
If the opening bid had been 1♠, then the 3NT bid is a fair gamble, the "gambling 3NT overcall" is well known and it was 100% obvious that you held solid diamonds
On a Club lead, you seem to be 5 down vulnerable, but oppo cannot double you, but they have not even got any game for themselves.... 3♠ was down on a heart lead, so even 1 down doubled in 5♦ was a foolish result

I would have voted for #5 if the correct wording had been used:-
Spiv/poker bidding that justifies opponents leaving at the end of the hand
or
Spiv/poker bidding that justifies partner leaving at the end of the hand

Tony

Edited
I strongly object to your unfounded attack on your opponent's ethics by implying that they left during the hand. An examination of the hand record proves this to be a lie

Tony, In his defense, he never said they left the table just that one of the poll choices would be to leave the table. Of course that implies that he would find that an acceptable action even though he did not say that.

[Old York]

gwnn, on Jan 7 2010, 04:35 PM, said:

I agree with that Old York but people use the word as a substitute to "ultimately bad". See the poll choices here where obvious is number 1 and Poker is worst in the world, worse than foolish..

Market Researchers and Opinion Polsters often use this unethical tactic

By carefully manipulating the wording and selecting positions in a list, a skilful, but unscrupulous, organisation can achieve the results that best serves their intentions

"When will you stop beating your wife?"
The damage has already been done.... no answer is possible and mud sticks

Tony

Edit: added later
I had a fantastic session against 2 GOOD poker players in the Acol Club 2 nights ago.
The table was electric, all friends together and all making silly comments in the knowlege that no-one could possibly take offense. The perfect session for me, and nothing to do with the fact that I won by 62 Imps

[jdonn]

Lol my answer was going to be "good bid whereagles" and that was before I even saw that he had posted.

[Apollo81]

whereagles, on Jan 7 2010, 07:16 AM, said:

3NT is wtp to me

You're right, nothing could possibly go wrong in 3NT.

[kayin801]

If I'm this person's opp, I'm perfectly happy to have them bid like this every once in a while, especially at MP (though OP said IMPs), so I don't know if I'd ever walk out. Free tops? Why not?

This actually happened once on a very similar hand, except instead after two passes my partner opened a precision 2C and THEN RHO bid 3NT on something like Axx, xxx, AKQJxxx, - (yes a club void). I needn't mention that 200 (4 NV undertricks) for us was a top when they were cold for 5D.

[Old York]

kayin801, on Jan 7 2010, 05:44 PM, said:

If I'm this person's opp, I'm perfectly happy to have them bid like this every once in a while, especially at MP (though OP said IMPs), so I don't know if I'd ever walk out. Free tops? Why not?

This actually happened once on a very similar hand, except instead after two passes my partner opened a precision 2C and THEN RHO bid 3NT on something like Axx, xxx, AKQJxxx, - (yes a club void). I needn't mention that 200 (4 NV undertricks) for us was a top when they were cold for 5D.

You raise a good point which I have always overlooked

Does the scoring method affect the odds and percentages of such bids?
Also, is Psych bidding more likely to be successful at Imp or MP?

Tony

[Wackojack]

Thanks for the replies. It is easy enough to construct hands consistent with the p-p-1C, where an overcall of 3NT is a make and 5D is not. I now think the odds of this being so, is low, and if this is correct, then my bid was foolish, particularly at red. However, readers may well have gathered that an opponent actally did leave the table after the hand was played out. The parting remark was "no poker lessons tonight, sorry p" Incidentally, the final contract was 5dx-1 (a common result) after LHO overcalled 4S then 2 passes to me and I went on to 5D (Possibly an even more foolish bid) LOL

Apart from the walk out beef, (and getting pleasure from giving Justin a good laugh) I am interested in what the forum would overcall on my hand. Looking at the score sheet, the range of overcalls was 1D, 2D, 3D, 4D, 5D and double and my lone 3NT. Mostly the lower overcalls walked the dog to 5D anyway. I confess that now I am torn between overcalling 4D (and passing any further biddding) and overcalling 5D. (but then I have hindsight in knowing the actual hands)

[Old York]

Wackojack, on Jan 7 2010, 06:25 PM, said:

However, readers may well have gathered that an opponent actally did leave the table after the hand was played out.  The parting remark was "no poker lessons tonight, sorry p"

Your opponent's parting comment was ill judged, and an apology is certainly in order

I was that opponent and I do apologise if this comment caused offense

After the hand was completed, my intention was to leave the table and apologise to partner and RHO for doing so, but the temptation to comment on the "poker" bid was a serious error of judgement. However, I had hoped that this comment would be received with good humour, and I deeply regret that assumption

Again, sorry

With respect
Tony

[Cyberyeti]

There is a reasonably well known line to the effect that "provided you've shown a club stop in the bidding, you don't actually need one in the play", but in this case with the hearts wide open too, this bid is a bit much even for me.

I did have one partner threaten to never play with me again after something not totally dissimilar. I opened 1N with ♦ Q10xxxxxx and a few cards, partner bid 3N and tabled a stiff ♦, RHO won trick 1, tabled ♦A, saw the K from his partner and played the J to trick 3, probably not optimal