[Flame]

We play the simples version of it, only weak 2 in either major, our 2d is therfore not forcing.
Now how should we continue after 2d (D) ?
Im pretty sure that the normal pick a major bid is 2h and not pass.
but what are pass and redouble.
my guessing
pass = long diamond can be a weak hand.
redouble = strong hand initially intending to catch the opponents , but still must have some diamonds (4 small maybe) because partner support to pass it unless very short in diamond (doublton is short ?)

Please help if you know how it suppose to be.

[Cascade]

I play

Pass = offer to play in 2♦
Redouble = tell me your major weak or strong
2♥/♠ = to play and short in the other major
3♣/♦ = to play

[kgr]

And with or without the DBL
2D-(P)-3H
2D-(X)-3H
Preemptive with at least 3 cards H and 3 cards S

[Trpltrbl]

Pass= equal length in majors
XX= suggestion to play
2♥/♠= invitational with the other major
2NT= ♣
3♣= ♦
3♦= ♥ preempt
3♥= ♠ preempt

Mike

[kgr]

Mike,

Quote

X= equal length in majors

This is not really allowed after 2D-(X)-

Quote

3♥= ♠ preempt

3H is S preempt. With what kind of hand will you bid this? You don't know yet if your partner has H or S.
Is it not better to play 3H as preempt in H or S (3+ card in both H and S)?

Quote

2♥/♠= invitational with the other major

Maybe I play too much MP's as opposed to IMP's, but I think it is important to compete to the right level (LOTT).
I play
2D-(X)-2H: at least 3 card H and 2 card S
2D-(X)-2S: invitational in H (same as without DBL)

Cascade,

Quote

2♥/♠ = to play and short in the other major

Probably your partner will have a 6 card in the other major and he will have to go back to his 6 card. You will end up in 3H doubled? (or do you only bid 2H/2S if you have a 6 card yourself)

..I play multi 2D with my regular p and have to confess that we didn't really discussed continuations after DBL by opps. The only difference the DBL makes is that 2H bid is no longer an obligation and it shows some fit (at least 2 card in both Majors).
Probably good idea to add somthing for REDBL; eg:
2D-(X)-2NT: strong with fit in both M (asks strength and which M)
2D-(X)-(XX): strong without fit in both M

Koen

[helene_t]

kgr, on Jul 9 2004, 02:50 AM, said:

[....] Cascade,
[2♥/♠ = to play and short in the other major]
Probably your partner will have a 6 card in the other major and he will have to go back to his 6 card. You will end up in 3H doubled? (or do you only bid 2H/2S if you have a 6 card yourself)

This is probably the standard approach since with other conventions (Landy, for example), rdbl is relay and everything else is to play. Of course, 2♥/♠ should mean that even opposite a void your suit is better than p's.

However, most often you want to play in partners major, so you should keep the auction as short as possible in that situation. Just bid 2♥ if you have nothing to say, it puts LHO under pressure. If you redouble with all those hands, LHO gets "pass" as part of his vocabulary. Hence:

Pass: 2♦ to play, at least as an option
rdbl: "partner, bid 2♥ even if you have spades. My suit is better than yours."
2♥/♠/NT: As without interference

[whereagles]

If you play 5-card junk multi, then the likelyhood increases that responder has a better suit than opener and that the hand belongs to the opponents. Therefore it makes more sense to play it as...

2D (dbl) ??

pass = diamonds, to play
redbl = rescue, asking pard to bid his major
2H/S and 3C = suit of his own, to play
3D = suit, forcing

[helene_t]

But why would you want to play junk multi? If you like junk preempts, just open 2♥/♠ as 5+. Multi should be used constructively, allowing 2♥/♠ to be exactly a 5-suit, which makes it possible for partner to get a more accurate picture of your hand.

[whereagles]

Well, one normally uses multi when one can't spare the 2H/S openings for weak twos.

If your system allows you to play 2D as constructive multi and 2H/S as trash preempts, you can use another scheme:

2D (dbl) ??

pass = penalty in 3 suits, forces redbl if 4th passes
redbl = penalty in 2 suits, encourages opener to double any suit on Hxx+
2H/S = pass/correct
etc...

[Gerben47]

Quote

Well, one normally uses multi when one can't spare the 2H/S openings for weak twos.

This might have been true in the 20th century.

In standard type systems one can always spare the 2♥/♠ openings for Weak Twos. You want 3 preemptive 2-level bids but your strong opening bids are overloaded: You can use Multi to include some strong and some weak hands in the same bid. For example:

2♣ = Any GF or SemiGF in a major or some strong NT
2♦ = SemiGF in a minor, weak two in a major or some strong NT
Now 2♥ and 2♠ are free for other preempts

You rarely want to pass a Multi 2♦ even if it's only weak so I think one should always include strong variants as this is bound to help constructive bidding somewhere else in the system.

For Flannery fans: has anyone ever tried something like this?

2♦ = Flannery or semiGF in a minor or strong NT

Gerben

[whereagles]

Well, playing natural you can organize it like that easily. But not all play natural

[helene_t]

Gerben47, on Jul 9 2004, 06:30 AM, said:

2♦ = SemiGF in a minor, weak two in a major or some strong NT
Now 2♥ and 2♠ are free for other preempts

For Flannery fans: has anyone ever tried something like this?

2♦ = Flannery or semiGF in a minor or strong NT

Here in the Netherlands most partners insist on that structure. I realy think it's bad.

If I'm strong with length in a minor, I always open 1m. If I open 2♦, partner will probably raise preemptively. Even if he doesn't, I will have more bidding space if I open 1m.

It might make sense to include some very specific strong hands in the multi, such as a GF 6-4-2-1 shape (AcolPlus), or a gf with 5-5 in diamonds plus a major.

Combining some strong hands with Flannery would also make more sense since you can agree not to raise flannery preemptively.

[Trpltrbl]

Quote

Mike,

Quote

X= equal length in majors

This is not really allowed after 2D-(X)-

I ment pass.

Mike

[Flame]

Trpltrbl, on Jul 9 2004, 10:26 AM, said:

Quote

Mike,

Quote

X= equal length in majors

This is not really allowed after 2D-(X)-

I ment pass.

Mike

Thats a bad idea.

[LukeG]

After Multi 2♦ is doubled, I like to play (from Barry Rigal's "Precision in the 90's")

pass = diamond tolerance (5+ cards)
redouble = bid your major, no interest in going above the two level
2♥ = pass/correct, interest in bidding to three level in ♠
2♠ = pass/correct, interest in bidding to three level in ♥ (normal meaning)

Responder can also redouble to escape into 2♠ or 3♣, allowing the direct 3♣ to have some other meaning.

I also like to play that if next hand overcalls 2♥

2♠ = pass/correct, no interest in going above the two level
double = pass/correct, interest in going to the three level in ♠

[Free]

Depends on the meaning of the Dbl and the position.

If Dbl shows ♦s:

pass = trf your Major (RDbl = ♥, 2♥ = ♠)
RDbl = to play
2M = natural non-forcing
2NT = lebensohl, to play 3X
3X = natural F1

If it shows opening hand, and says nothing about ♦s, I prefer something like whereagles suggests, since I also like to play trash multi

[mishovnbg]

Hi flame!
When you try to play some convention/agreement in competition is nice idea to play same in similar situations, because else will be very complex and hard to remember your agreements. The method I use to pay is:

pass: Possibility to play dbl contract after weak artifical opening(like multi). Stopper+ after transfer/stayman/relay/strong artifical opening.

rdbl: deny possibilty to pass or bid by system. Puppet to next suit, giving the rdbl possibility to sign off anywhere(own suit).

bid: system on

The advantage of above method is you continue to play your system as long as it is possible and use your work on it. It also give you sign off in all suits, most of time even to pick up between 2 suits. Examples:

2♦{multi} - (dbl) - rdbl{puppet 2♥} - (p)
2♥{accept puppet} - (p*) - ?
pass/2♠/3♣: s.o.
2NT: ♣+♦ s.o.
Note *. If opp dbl instead of p, then rdbl=♠+m s.o.

1NT - (p) - 2♦{transfer} - (dbl) - ?
pass: stopper + ♦. rdbl form p now ask to pass with 4 cards
rdbl: deny stopper ♦, prefer p to play contracts
2♥: 3♥, prefer to play contract
bid: system

(1♠) - 1NT{raptor} - (dbl) - ?
pass: can play 1NT
rdbl: puppet to 2♣ (own suit)
bid: system (p/c)

As you can see by examples method is suitable and usefull after almost any artifical bid in competition. Probably usage of specific bids in specific situations is more effective, but imo is good for computers only

Misho