[Grommet1]

13 top tricks at ♥ or NT. How do we get there?

---

1C 1H
1S 2D*
3C 3H
3NT P

*FSF

Both the 2D and 3NT bids are funky, I think.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

2D is fine, assuming, you dont play SJS, what else do you want to bid.
But 3NT after 3H is ..., sry 3H showed a strong slam interested 1-suiter,
opener has the king of hearts, a card which is gigantic, and he bids 3NT,
whithout a diamond stopper? 4D is clear cut.

Now pass by responder over 3NT is also something which would not occur
to me in my wildest dreams, and I can dream terrible things, if I am sitting
on the bridge table, 4H it is, sry, one has semisolid 7 card suit in hearts,
does responder really want to play NT?

If opener bids 4D over 3H, a cue you will at least reach 6H.

Lets see

1C - 1H
1S - 2D
3C - 3H
4D (1) - 4NT (2)
5C (2) - 5S (3)
5NT(3) - ... (4)

(1) A move toward slam, agreeing hearts, not 100% a control
(2) RKCB, 0 or 3 - obviously
(3) specific king ask, king of spades
(4) at this point responder can count 12 tricks, 7 hearts, 3 spades,
1D, 1C - opener has shown 14HCP, but he may still happen to
hold a min, you will find out, that opener does not have the king
of clubs, ... bidding 6H or 7H flip a coin

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jonottawa]

Grommet1, on Jan 3 2010, 09:18 PM, said:

Both the 2D and 3NT bids are funky, I think.

All calls are normal except 3N which is bizarre.

99% blame to N.

[Hanoi5]

I also vote for 3NT as the worst bid. 90% blame to North.

[gwnn]

3NT is beyond words, it is completely bad, it is absolutely unbelievable. bid 4♦, good raise to 4♥. if you can't bid that, bid 4♥ (but that's an underbid).

[Fluffy]

P_Marlowe, on Jan 3 2010, 09:34 PM, said:

Hi,

2D is fine, assuming, you dont play SJS, what else do you want to bid.
But 3NT after 3H is ..., sry 3H showed a strong slam interested 1-suiter,
opener has the king of hearts, a card which is gigantic, and he bids 3NT,
whithout a diamond stopper? 4D is clear cut.

Now pass by responder over 3NT is also something which would not occur
to me in my wildest dreams, and I can dream terrible things, if I am sitting
on the bridge table, 4H it is, sry, one has semisolid 7 card suit in hearts,
does responder really want to play NT?

If opener bids 4D over 3H, a cue you will at least reach 6H.

Lets see

1C - 1H
1S - 2D
3C - 3H
4D (1) - 4NT (2)
5C (2) - 5S (3)
5NT(3) - ... (4)

(1) A move toward slam, agreeing hearts, not 100% a control
(2) RKCB, 0 or 3 - obviously
(3) specific king ask, king of spades
(4) at this point responder can count 12 tricks, 7 hearts, 3 spades,
1D, 1C - opener has shown 14HCP, but he may still happen to
hold a min, you will find out, that opener does not have the king
of clubs, ... bidding 6H or 7H flip a coin

With kind regards
Marlowe

specific king ask? you ask specifically for ♠K when you have ♣Qx? you seem heavilly biased this time Uwe.

3NT is beyond words

[P_Marlowe]

Fluffy, on Jan 3 2010, 06:06 PM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Jan 3 2010, 09:34 PM, said:

Hi,

2D is fine, assuming, you dont play SJS, what else do you want to bid.
But 3NT after 3H is ..., sry 3H showed a strong slam interested 1-suiter,
opener has the king of hearts, a card which is gigantic, and he bids 3NT,
whithout a diamond stopper? 4D is clear cut.

Now pass by responder over 3NT is also something which would not occur
to me in my wildest dreams, and I can dream terrible things, if I am sitting
on the bridge table, 4H it is, sry, one has semisolid 7 card suit in hearts,
does responder really want to play NT?

If opener bids 4D over 3H, a cue you will at least reach 6H.

Lets see

1C - 1H
1S - 2D
3C - 3H
4D (1) - 4NT (2)
5C (2) - 5S (3)
5NT(3) - ... (4)

(1) A move toward slam, agreeing hearts, not 100% a control
(2) RKCB, 0 or 3 - obviously
(3) specific king ask, king of spades
(4) at this point responder can count 12 tricks, 7 hearts, 3 spades,
     1D, 1C - opener has shown 14HCP, but he may still happen to
     hold a min, you will find out, that opener does not have the king
     of clubs, ... bidding 6H or 7H flip a coin

With kind regards
Marlowe

specific king ask? you ask specifically for ♠K when you have ♣Qx? you seem heavilly biased this time Uwe.

3NT is beyond words

No, but it may just be a wrong wording / naming.

5D - would ask for the Queen,
5H - would be sign of
5S - would ask would be specific king ask, responder would show
the first possible king, bypassing denies
The answers are - 5NT is the spade king,
6C would be the club king, but denies the spade
king
Of course I am more interested in the club kiing, since opener will be 5-4,
but well, my grand slam bidding is not very fine tuned

After 5NT, you could ask for the king of clubs direct, and opener will deny the
king

With kind regards
Marlowe

[whereagles]

4NT RKCB after 3♥ seems ok to me. 3NT is either inexperience or terrible misjudgement.

[Hanoi5]

Also, what about 1♣ 2♥?

[Codo]

I agree that 3 NT was a bad bid, but passing 3 NT is beyond words too. You have 8 tricks in your own hand and pass 3 NT?

[ArtK78]

P_Marlowe, on Jan 3 2010, 04:34 PM, said:

But 3NT after 3H is ..., sry 3H showed a strong slam interested 1-suiter....

Clearly 3NT is bad, and the pass of 3NT is unthinkable.

I have a question about the statement that 3♥ is a slam try.

Assuming that 3♥ over 1♠ would be invitational only (i.e., not forcing), how can responder show a game forcing one-suited hand other than bidding 2♦ follwed by 3♥? I do not agree that the 3♥ bid shows more than a good 6 card heart suit with game forcing values.

Of course, when responder pulls 3NT to 4♥, he must have a very good hand, since he could have bid 4♥ directly over 1♠ without any slam interest (assuming that 4♥ is natural, which is certainly true without any prior discussion).

[Cyberyeti]

Hanoi5, on Jan 4 2010, 05:25 AM, said:

Also, what about 1♣ 2♥?

Exactly, our auction would be:

1♣-2♥ (Single suited rock crusher or HHxxx+♥ and Hxxx+♣)
2♠-3♥ (single suited flavour)
4♠(RKCB)-5♥ (2+Q)
5♠(bid 7 with K or Q♠ or cue something else)-7♥

[mikeh]

This is a deceptively difficult hand for those who do not have a sjs in their arsenal...and I am one of those.

3N is astoundingly weak....S has not promised a diamond stopper (not that 3N makes any sense even if S had, but it is even sillier when the opps might run 6 diamonds on the go).

passing 3N is also weird.....

As for how an auction might go, trying to avoid the problems inherent in seeing both hands is almost impossible but:

1♣  1♥
1♠  2♦
2♥

is one far-fetched possibility....the Kx of hearts is probably as useful as xxx and we'd all bid 2♥ with 4=3=1=5 shape...and it keeps the bidding lower, which will be useful if partner was coming in spades or clubs.

But in truth, 3♣ is at least acceptable and probably the consensus call among most of the better players with whom I play.

So:

3♣  3♥
4♦

4♦ has to be agreeing hearts....however....what would 4♣ be? My guess: 4=7 in the blacks...with 4=1=2=6, and a diamond card opener would rebid 3♠ as a stall.

Over 4♦, showing extras and almost surely 4=2=1=6 shape, S has enought to commit to slam and grand slam ambitions.

Here, it is useful to play kickback....

4♦  4♠  keycard
5♣  5♠  specific king ask
5N  6♦  5N=♠K
7♥

The advantage of kickback is that it allows opener to show the spade King...contrast with 4N as keycard, followed by 5N....opener cannot show the spade K

6♦ is precautionary, catering to say AKxx K Qx AJ10xxx.

I think this is a plausible auction

[EricK]

mikeh, on Jan 4 2010, 05:55 PM, said:

This is a deceptively difficult hand for those who do not have a sjs in their arsenal...and I am one of those.

I hope you get good scores from your WJS (or whatever JS you use) because I have lost track of the number of hands on here or rec.games.bridge where someone posts a slam they missed which is trivial to locate if SJS are being played.

[jdonn]

I don't think the hand is too hard anyway, no need for SJS.

1♣ 1♥
1♠ 2♦
3♣ 3♥
4♦ 4NT
etc...

4♦ = slam try in hearts
4NT = no need to have black suit controls, with us having the red suits covered and partner bidding both black suits and showing a strong hand it's best to simplify the auction.
After you find all the keycards and the spade king you should just chance a grand IMO. You may get a diamond ruff, the spade jack, club jack for finesse, spade ten for finesse, squeeze...

[mikeh]

EricK, on Jan 4 2010, 01:34 PM, said:

mikeh, on Jan 4 2010, 05:55 PM, said:

This is a deceptively difficult hand for those who do not have a sjs in their arsenal...and I am one of those.

I hope you get good scores from your WJS (or whatever JS you use) because I have lost track of the number of hands on here or rec.games.bridge where someone posts a slam they missed which is trivial to locate if SJS are being played.

Of course you have. People always post about problems....relatively few people post about routine good results.

BTW, over 1♣, I like to play that 2♦/2♥ are transfers...either weak or SJS, so I get (most of) the benefit of both treatments...altho the SJS is always a one-suiter with good quality.

And while there are bidding problems that undoubtedly resolve easier with SJS than with the slower, FSF, approach, there are very few, in my experience, that are not resolvable at all, without the SJS.

In the meantime, the other uses to which the js can be put offer different benefits and carry different costs....for every hand on which a lament the lack of a sjs, I am sure that there will be at least one hand on which I am happy that I have whatever my gadget of the day happens to be....the wjs, for example, can score tremendously well on occasion...and often poses the opps problems that would not exist over a 1-level response....and also affords useful inferences when responder shows 6 card length without having made a wjs.

WJSs make one a tougher pair to play against...they create pressure...and they arise relatively frequently. And it is possible to play a decent constructive structure over them when opener has a good hand. So, on balance, I do think that I am a net winner through playing wjs rather than sjs.