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Which game try

#21 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-January-01, 21:00

ggwhiz, on Jan 1 2010, 07:34 PM, said:

Although I agree with gnasher in principle, we need partner to cooperate if slam is going to be bid.  Qxx Axxx xxx xxx only gets to game.  If pard raises to 4h with this, now what.  Are you moving?  Could they not have something like Qxx Jxxx KQxx Jx?


The second one would be a raise to 4H. It has wasted stuff in the bypassed suits.
the first one needs tools such as the serious 3NT with such perfect cards. A suggested auction was already shown.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#22 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2010-January-01, 21:25

Quote

Qxx Axxx xxx xxx only gets to game.  If pard raises to 4h with this, now what.  Are you moving?  Could they not have something like Qxx Jxxx KQxx Jx?




The second one would be a raise to 4H. It has wasted stuff in the bypassed suits


Are not both hands a raise to 4h? I don't get serious 3nt other than I seriously think I'm winning 9 tricks.
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#23 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-January-01, 22:01

ggwhiz, on Jan 1 2010, 08:25 PM, said:

Quote

Qxx Axxx xxx xxx only gets to game.  If pard raises to 4h with this, now what.  Are you moving?  Could they not have something like Qxx Jxxx KQxx Jx?




The second one would be a raise to 4H. It has wasted stuff in the bypassed suits


Are not both hands a raise to 4h? I don't get serious 3nt other than I seriously think I'm winning 9 tricks.

the theory of serious 3NT is that there are hands which are established that they belong in a suit contract ---such as the unbalanced hand shown here by the 3H bid.

So, 3NT can be used for some other purpose. Both responding hands you gave as examples are not equal. one is a mountain on the auction. the other is crap. One would allow slam exploration by opener, the other is crap.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#24 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-January-02, 04:32

If I show hearts and partner has 4-card support, he should make a bid that shows that support. He can't bid 3NT unless we still have a way to get to hearts after that. That matters not only when opener has a slam try, but also (and more often) on the game hands where we belong in hearts.

If partner raised hearts, I'd just bid 6♥. It's not easy to cater for all the hands where we might make slam, and it would be unlucky for it not to have any play. Further exploration might help them with choosing a minor-suit lead.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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