[1eyedjack]

Scoring: IMP

S...W...N...E
1N..2♥..3N.. End

---

I was berated by p for opening 1N (15-17), who was at pains to point out that 6♠ was good (it was bid and made by about half the room).
He didn't state the reason for his objection to 1N. At the time I thought that he was just one of those with aversion to opening 1N with a 5 card major, but on reflection he might have had in mind that the trick-taking potential of the hand in total justified upgrading to an 18 count, with which I have a bit more sympathy.

The diamond finesse failed (predictably, I think, given the overcall) but Spades broke 2-2 with the Q offside. Had I been in slam I think I may well have taken the losing trump finesse after cashing King.

Single dummy, how do you rate the slam as one to be bid? If you think you should be there, do you think that opening 1♠ is the best route there? If 1N is OK, is there a decent auction to get there?

[Jlall]

Your partner was correct to berate your 1N opener, your hand is simply way too good. You have 3 tens, a five card suit, and completely primed out (7 controls). Even your jacks are both working well, one in your 5 card suit, one in an AJT combo.

If your partner has a spade fit your hand is worth way more than 17. Even if you have no spade fit, your hand is definitely worth more than 17 balanced.

And not just that, but generally you should stretch to open 1M with 17 and a 5 card major, even if your hand is pretty average. You overbid it slightly, but you always find your major suit fits. It is a disaster to miss game on 1N p p p when partner has a spade fit and a bit of shape and something like 5-7 points. It is not really a disaster to treat 17 and a 5 card suit as 18, even if it's not quite worth it.

As far as reaching slam, I find it very unlikely, even if you open 1S. If they overcall 2H, you will certainly go down though when you hook the spade.

Certainly is an overbid, there are certain types of players (AKA bad ones) who would overcall with Qx of spades because they have 11 points, but pass with a stiff spade because they only have 9 points. In reality they should always prefer to overcall with the stiff spade, but many such players do exist.

[PeterGill]

The Kaplan Rubens Evaluator at
http://www.jeffgolds...cgi-bin/knr.cgi
says AJ862 AT4 AJT KT = 18.10
or DK (Danny Kleinman) = 19

If you're bored, it can be fun to play with the K and R Evaluator.
For example, if you make the spades AJ1086, it become 18.85 (or DK 20-).

[kgr]

Jlall, on Dec 25 2009, 11:49 AM, said:

Certainly is an overbid, there are certain types of players (AKA bad ones) who would overcall with Qx of spades because they have 11 points, but pass with a stiff spade because they only have 9 points. In reality they should always prefer to overcall with the stiff spade, but many such players do exist.

I was told that there are also players who would rather overcall after RHO opens 1♠ with ♠Qx then with ♠x because they hope that their overcall will make you finesse through their partner?

[wank]

kgr, on Dec 25 2009, 05:49 AM, said:

Jlall, on Dec 25 2009, 11:49 AM, said:

Certainly is an overbid, there are certain types of players (AKA bad ones) who would overcall with Qx of spades because they have 11 points, but pass with a stiff spade because they only have 9 points. In reality they should always prefer to overcall with the stiff spade, but many such players do exist.

I was told that there are also players who would rather overcall after RHO opens 1♠ with ♠Qx then with ♠x because they hope that their overcall will make you finesse through their partner?

you've been reading too many books. that's just something zia said in a money game to try and psyche out the oppo.

[Fluffy]

I used to hate NT openings with 5 card majors, but nowadays I think opening with 5 hearts can be good often. The reason is they often overcall spades over your hearts.

But having spades it is different, you might miss your fit forever when it goes competitive and its not worth it.

As for the slam, when you look at both hands it is just like... I wanna be in slam. But reaching it won't be auto if you open 1♠.

BTW It is quite possible that LHO doesn't overcall 2♥ over 1♠.

[ONEferBRID]

What happened to Lebensohl ? Responder has enough room to find a ♠ fit or 3NT with a GF hand:

1NT - ( 2H ) - 2NT! - ( p )
3C! - ( p ) - 3H = shows 4s and ♥-stop(s)

whereas the direct 3H bid ( over 2H ) would be Stayman w/o ♥-stop

[aguahombre]

ONEferBRID, on Dec 25 2009, 07:12 AM, said:

What happened to Lebensohl ?   Responder has enough room to find a ♠ fit or 3NT with a GF hand:

1NT - ( 2H ) - 2NT! - ( p )
3C! -  ( p )  - 3H = shows 4s and ♥-stop(s)

whereas the direct 3H bid ( over 2H ) would be Stayman w/o ♥-stop

exactly. The criticism of opening 1NT with this super strong hand is well justified. But, it really should have had no bearing on the result. It is not an easily biddable slam--even after opening 1S-- and could fail, as stated. Getting to a spade contract is not a problem if the partnership uses the tools at its disposal.

In fact, if opener wakes up after the lebensohl auction and realizes his hand is a monster with a spade fit, he might drive this one to slam.

[Winstonm]

I think Lebensohl is a red herring. If opener gets all excited and drives to slam he should find partner with: Jxxx, Kxx, Qxx, Axx, whereas responder can never visualize such a monster for a 1N opening so has no reason to try for slam with his so-so balanced 12-count, spade fit or no.

It seems pretty simple to me that if your range for 1N has a top end of 17 and you open this hand 1N you have misled partner about the strength of your hand.

AK62
53
K743
AK3

(edited for picky people who only want 13 cards)

IMO, this is as good of 17 count as you could expect.

[aguahombre]

I should have said "steer" rather than "drive". Partner could be in charge of the brakes.

[eyhung]

Winstonm, on Dec 25 2009, 10:20 AM, said:

AK62
53
K743
AK32

IMO, this is as good of 17 count as you could expect.

I never expect 14 cards in a hand.

[Winstonm]

eyhung, on Dec 25 2009, 01:20 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Dec 25 2009, 10:20 AM, said:

AK62
53
K743
AK32

IMO, this is as good of 17 count as you could expect.

I never expect 14 cards in a hand.

Then you haven't played in my club.

[barryallen]

Winstonm, on Dec 25 2009, 12:20 PM, said:

I think Lebensohl is a red herring.  If opener gets all excited and drives to slam he should find partner with: Jxxx, Kxx, Qxx, Axx, whereas responder can never visualize such a monster for a 1N opening so has no reason to try for slam with his so-so balanced 12-count, spade fit or no.

It seems pretty simple to me that if your range for 1N has a top end of 17 and you open this hand 1N you have misled partner about the strength of your hand.

AK62
53
K743
AK3

(edited for picky people who only want 13 cards) 

IMO, this is as good of 17 count as you could expect.

Why is Lebensohl a red herring? If you are that weak, why are you bothering to investigate slam? In this example it works out perfectly

1NT - 2♥ - 2NT - P
3♣ - P - 3♥ - P
3♠ - P - 4♣ and so on

3♥ showing the ♥ stop and 4♠
3♠ accepting ♠ and 4♣ showing the ♣ control.

Not arguing the case what should be opened, but once you are there, Lebensohl works perfectly well.

[keylime]

I happily open 1S here.

What I do suspect myself is that in this auction you may stop at 5♠:

Auction 1:

1S - 2NT
3NT (balanced extras) - 4C
4D - 4S
5C - 5H
5S all pass

Auction 2:

1S - 2C
2NT - 3S
4NT - 5H
5S all pass

With Larry and I, we would not be in slam either missing a control and the QS.

[neilkaz]

I try to find reasons to not open 1NT when I have a 5 card major, especially ♠.

Here I certainly have reasons as this prime hand with a 5 card suit looks to me, a cautious upgrader to be at least as good as a solid 18 count. I have no problem raising a 1NT response to 2NT here and won't be ashamed at all if PD makes slam moves with all my controls and my often useful tens.

I can envision all sorts of 7 or even 6 counts pard can have that pass 1NT when 4♠ rolls home.

However, one wonders why on the given auction and lacking leb, that responder didn't cue 3♥ as GF Stayman.

[Old York]

This may or may not be a missed slam, the 2-2 trumps were not guaranteed, altho a vulnerable 2♥ overcall was unlikely with 7-8 points and ♥Qxxxxx

What is certain is that this was a missed opportunity for a penalty

West was only entitled to 3 tricks in his vulnerable contract of 2♥x
Perhaps your partner was not world class after all ( I notice he failed to defeat 6♠ a couple of hands earlier)
5 down doubled and vulnerable is not to be sniffed at, (1400 is as good as the slam at imps)

Tony