[jillybean]

Partner opens 1♦, you hold

void,xx,AQJxx,AQxxxx

2♣ is gf with ♣'s
2♦ is inverted
3♠ is a splinter

Which path will you take?

[Phil]

Splinter

[jillybean]

Phil, on Dec 29 2009, 12:39 PM, said:

Splinter

why

[TylerE]

3♠ seems obv....I mean there are 10 counts where we have play for grand.

[EricK]

TylerE, on Dec 29 2009, 07:42 PM, said:

3♠ seems obv....I mean there are 10 counts where we have play for grand.

But does that mean 3♠ is the best way to locate them?

[TylerE]

Much more so than starting with 2m.

I mean, we basically have the following options:

2♣: GF, 4+ ♣
2♦: Forcing (GF?) with 4 (5?)+♦
3♠: GF, 4(usually 5[i]), and shortness in ♠.

Additionally, 3♠ has the advantage that you've got a good shot at stopping in 3N when slam is bad (KQJx KQxx xxx Jx), which you might have trouble doing after starting with 2m.

[jillybean]

1♦:2♣ for us is gf 5+ clubs

[wank]

i'm curious to know what you might do if you got dealt a 3334 17 count if 2C is always 5+.

[mikeh]

TylerE, on Dec 29 2009, 03:49 PM, said:

Much more so than starting with 2m.

I mean, we basically have the following options:

2♣: GF, 4+ ♣
2♦: Forcing (GF?) with 4 (5?)+♦
3♠: GF, 4(usually 5[i]), and shortness in ♠.

Additionally, 3♠ has the advantage that you've got a good shot at stopping in 3N when slam is bad (KQJx KQxx xxx Jx), which you might have trouble doing after starting with 2m.

I don't see how any bridge player could splinter and then pass 3N. Wow.

I am torn: if we have a good inverted method, then I might prefer that, but I suspect that our agreements are not complex. Few non-serious partnerships have complex agreements here.

So I splinter, but on the understanding that I ain't through yet!

My main issue is what to do over 3N.....I am not passing and wouldn't have thought it possible to pass had someone not suggested it. My partners hold KQJx Qx Kxxx Kxx and are puzzled to go down 2 or 3 tricks in 3N....or do you suggest he diagnose that our splinter was based in part on a heart holding of xx?

I could bid 4♠ over 3N, but I doubt that he could find himself able to bid 5♥ very often....so I think I'd bid 4♣ then over 4 red, bid 4♠ and hope that this doesn't show the stiff spade Ace rather than a void. I think he should be able to work out that I took this route out of fear of hearts.

[bid_em_up]

Personally, I feel that splintering with this hand takes up too much room.

If my methods allow for showing controls after an inverted g/f raise, then that would be my first choice. If the methods do not allow for this, then splinter is my second choice.

[TylerE]

Really Mike? At least the way I play minor suit spinters is that it shows a really good hand, almost a slam force but willing to bail opp a really soft balanced minimum.

[Phil]

Agree with Mike - 3N isn't it for me. I will follow up with 4♣ and 4♠ over 4 red. If I get the least amount of encouragement, I'm driving this to 6. I'll probably give up over 4N.

[mikeh]

TylerE, on Dec 29 2009, 04:26 PM, said:

Really Mike? At least the way I play minor suit spinters is that it shows a really good hand, almost a slam force but willing to bail opp a really soft balanced minimum.

We don't know the scoring, but it doesn't much matter. Even at mps, passing 3N is flat out weird no matter how you play your splinters.

A splinter will usually deliver and hence implies some degree of length/strength in the unbid suits. Especially over 3♠, we expect opener to look at his spade suit and, unless he has unusual shape or extra strength, to rebid 3N with spades well stopped...without worrying about the side suits....which he will expect us to help him with....or to be planning to pull 3N.

Put another way: say you splintered and passed 3N and the opps led heart and found KQJx Qx Kxxx Kxx....... down 2 because hearts broke well. Ok...ATB.

Does anyone think, for one moment, that opener did anything wrong? Is he supposed to drive beyond 3N with no Aces and KQJx in spades?

Clearly the error, if there be one, lies with responder.

Surely we can all agree that in 2009 two reasonably competent players should be able to bid these hands to 5♦?

If you have any intention of passing 3N, don't splinter....it's silly. Bid 2♣ then raise diamonds....let's say the auction goes 1♦ 2♣ 2N 3♦ 3N....now we have told partner we have interest in a high diamond contract (else 3N not 3♦) and we have also warned him that he needs both minors stopped for 3N. Bingo...

[blackshoe]

For me, 2♣ denies a void, so I bid 3♠, which shows specifically a void.

[Cyberyeti]

3♣ (rockcrusher with ♣ or GF HHxxx+ ♣ and Hxxx+♦)

follow with 4♠ exclusion (anything except 4♣/3N shows the fit type)

[gnasher]

I'd bid 2♣. I don't want partner thinking that middle heart honours are good. The most important thing is his club holding.

[nige1]

TylerE, on Dec 29 2009, 03:49 PM, said:

Much more so than starting with 2m.
I mean, we basically have the following options:
2♣: GF, 4+ ♣
2♦: Forcing (GF?) with 4 (5?)+♦
3♠: GF, 4(usually 5[i]), and shortness in ♠.
Additionally, 3♠ has the advantage that you've got a good shot at stopping in 3N when slam is bad (KQJx KQxx xxx Jx), which you might have trouble doing after starting with 2m.

IMO 3♠ = 10, 2♣ = 9, 2♦ = 8, 6♦ = 7.
I agree with MikeH that passing 3N may be a poor idea (e.g. opposite ♠ KQJx ♥ xx ♦ Kxxx ♣ Kxx) but the splinter seems the best start. Although Gnasher makes a good case for 2♣.

[Hanoi5]

I like 2♣ better than 3♠. I don't like splintering with a two-suited hand.

[andy_h]

I'd bid 3♠, splinter. I don't want to forgoe the chance of the auction of partner supporting clubs and for us needing to bid some diamonds to definitely play in diamonds in case partner has a heart holding to protect (and thus losing bidding space). And also in case partner bids 2M over our 2♣ in which we might have a hard time setting diamonds and saying shortage in spades.

I am definitely moving if partner bids 3NT over my splinter via 4♣. At least this still gives the added chance that if partner bids 4♦, we'd be able to deny a heart cue and bid 4♠ to confirm 1st round control.

[jillybean]

Not surprisingly, the people Ive talked to disagree on this too.

One who would bid 2♣ so draw information and set the contract in a minor game or slam, they wont splinter with a void. Another who would make an immediate gf raise, the bad thing about splinter with with that shape is that partner will think that minor heart honours are ok.

I started with 2♣ and we stopped in 5♦ after
1♦:2♣
2N:3♦
3♥:3♠
3N:5♦

AK95,A95,8742,J8
void,72,AQJ63,AQ7653

What this hand has shown is that we need to discuss auctions after 1m:2m, I'm not sure if we are exploring for a minor slam or for NT.