[PriorKnowledge]

west has 3s and east has 5s and 14cards. something wrong.

If west has 3s, and KD, my line works

[luis]

[quote name='PriorKnowledge' date='Jul 8 2004, 03:43 PM'] west has 3s and east has 5s and 14cards. something wrong.

Yes, something is wrong. I have my theories.

[luis]

Instead of cluttering this thread with cat&mouse posts I think is time to ask Ben for one of his wonderful calculations about each line. Maybe you are right and d finesse first is right maybe not.

You play diamond finesse and if that loses you try to discard a diamond on the third spade and stablish diamonds. If the finesse succeeds same idea.
On the other corner I play the 4 spades discarding two diamonds from my hand without touching trumps or diamonds. The idea is to either stablish diamonds or to ruff the 3 clubs in dummy.

I really think my line is better but who knows, maybe I'm wrong, I have been wrong many times before.

Luis.

[andych]

[quote name='luis' date='Jul 8 2004, 03:48 PM'] [quote name='PriorKnowledge' date='Jul 8 2004, 03:43 PM'] west has 3s and east has 5s and 14cards. something wrong.

Yes, something is wrong. I have my theories. [/QUOTE]
Sorry for typo. E has 4 spades.

3325 for W and 4135 for E

One other reason during the play I didnt fin D after winning SQ at hand is that D may be 41. E win DK and give a ruff

[inquiry]

luis, on Jul 8 2004, 11:56 AM, said:

Instead of cluttering this thread with cat&mouse posts I think is time to ask Ben for one of his wonderful calculations about each line.

I have been enjoying the cat-mouse chase... I will look into this later today.

Ben

[andych]

luis, on Jul 8 2004, 03:14 PM, said:

PriorKnowledge, on Jul 8 2004, 02:58 PM, said:

luis, my line works with spades 43, diam 32, and either kd onside and hearts 31 or kd offside and hearts 22

so far you have said my line is wrong, but have not shown how your line works. I have shown how your line does not work. Now you say my line is dangerous if diam 4-1? Right. My line fails.

Show me trick-by-trick ANY line that will work when my line fails when diam are 4-1 and you start with 4 rounds of spades.

Talk is cheap

Ah how I like aggressive posts .... specially when they are wrong.

---

Your line: Diamond finesse, diamond ruff, one down at trick 3.
My line: West ruffs the 4th spade, and returns a club, ruff in dummy, cash the hA, Diamond Ace and diamond ruff. club ruff with the K. Diamond and you can ruff low and draw the remaining trump or overruff the last trump that east has.

I'm not saying that I'm sure my line is better it's only what I think.
What I am sure is that is not worth discussing with you.

Talk is VERY cheap.

How to make the nice hand diagram?

[scoob]

andych:

when you post there are some special buttons across the top;

FULLHAND, ONEHAND, ONESUIT
LEFTDUMMY, RIGHTDUMMY, PARTNERSNS, PARTNERSEW

click the appropriate one and you will get a popup window in which you can fill in the proper card layouts

[EarlPurple]

It would seem that a good line would be not to draw any trumps at all but to start with 4 rounds of spades, throwing both your diamonds.

One of them ruffs the 4th spade but assuming that the player who ruffs started with either 2 hearts or 3, the remaining trumps will now be 2-1. If they lead a trump you can win, take DA and ruff a diamond, cross to other trump and ruff diamond then ruff club to get back to diamonds. We can also make when either player has stiff DK. If it's West we ruff the first diamond (after the ace) with the queen, then going back to dummy draws his last trump so we can ruff another diamond low.

If our 3rd spade were ruffed (spades 5-2) all is not lost. If we're forced in clubs (probably best defence) ruff high and try HA and low heart to the queen (likely to draw all the trumps) and try the diamond finesse. The last club goes on dummy's remaining spade. If instead after the 3rd spade were ruffed we got a trump lead we draw trumps in 2 rounds finishing in hand, finesse diamonds, ruff them out and ruff a club to get back to them. Note: here we don't have the entries to set up the diamonds by ruffing them out unless the king falls in 2 rounds - less likely than the finesse.

We will go down on this line when spades are 5-2 and hearts 2-2 if the diamond finesse fails, whereas ruffing then immediately drawing 2 rounds of trumps works whenever trumps are 2-2. We'll also lose out on 4-1 diamond breaks even when trumps are 2-2 except when the king is singleton.

[whereagles]

scoob, on Jul 8 2004, 05:18 PM, said:

andych:

when you post there are some special buttons across the top;

FULLHAND, ONEHAND, ONESUIT
LEFTDUMMY, RIGHTDUMMY, PARTNERSNS, PARTNERSEW

click the appropriate one and you will get a popup window in which you can fill in the proper card layouts

Speaking of this, we need a bidding template BADLY

[EarlPurple]

and talking of those templates. LEFTDUMMY and RIGHTDUMMY annoy me because they place dummy East or West with you South.

Hand diagrams always look clearer with dummy as North and you as either West or East.

But you can get around that by "cheating".