[andych]

S AKJx
H AKxx
D AQxxx
C



S Qx
H Qxxxx
D xxx
C xxx



Bidding
N E S W
1C* P 1D** 2C
3C P 3H P
6H All pass


* strong
** weak

Opening lead CK

[scoob]

one of two things must happen:

1) ♥'s split 2-2
2) ♦ K to my left

rough with small ♥
A ♥
small ♥ to my Q
rough club with K ♥
small ♠ to my Q
♦ finesse
AKJ ♠ dumping 1 ♦ and 2 ♣'s

[Free]

scoob, on Jul 7 2004, 06:42 PM, said:

one of two things must happen:

1) ♥'s split 2-2
2) ♦ K to my left

rough with small ♥
A ♥
small ♥ to my Q
rough club with K ♥
small ♠ to my Q
♦ finesse
AKJ ♠ dumping 1 ♦ and 2 ♣'s

There's another possibility: one of opps has 1♥ and maximum 3♠s, then you can make 4 ♠ tricks (discard ♦s), 1 ♦ trick and at least 7 ♥ tricks...

[scoob]

Free, on Jul 7 2004, 12:17 PM, said:

scoob, on Jul 7 2004, 06:42 PM, said:

one of two things must happen:

1) ♥'s split 2-2
2) ♦ K to my left

rough with small ♥
A ♥
small ♥ to my Q
rough club with K ♥
small ♠ to my Q
♦ finesse
AKJ ♠ dumping 1 ♦ and 2 ♣'s

There's another possibility: one of opps has 1♥ and maximum 3♠s, then you can make 4 ♠ tricks (discard ♦s), 1 ♦ trick and at least 7 ♥ tricks...

good point

thankfully, this would have been self-realized with my line of play

i'm lucky that way

[Trpltrbl]

Pull 2 trump and play ♠, pitching ♦.
Start X ruffing.

Mike

[PriorKnowledge]

Trpltrbl, on Jul 7 2004, 04:03 PM, said:

Pull 2 trump and play ♠, pitching ♦.
Start X ruffing.

Mike

Sorry, mike, you end up a trick short after opps ruff 4th spade or overruff a diam
[(5h + 3s) or (4h+4s)] + 2c ruffs in dummy + 1d = 11

[luis]

I will take a pedrestrian line. Ruff the club.
Spade to the Q.
Spade to the J.
Spade ace discarding a diamond.
If that's not ruffed then spade King discarding the 2nd diamond.
Somebody ruffs but I think that with normal breaks I can make 12 tricks ruffing the 3 clubs in dummy or stablishing dummy diamonds in the middle.

[PriorKnowledge]

a very reasonable line...
lets give west = xxx xxx Kxx KQxx east = xxxx x xx AJ10xxx and see what happens.
west ruffs the 4th spade and leads another club. AD, ruff diam low. ruff last club in dummy with KH, ruff another diam in hand low. After 10 tricks, lead in South:

     S
     H A
     D Qx
     C
 S         S
 H xx      H x
 D         D
 C x       C Ax
     S
     H Qxx
     D
     C

Looks like you are down... and KD was onside.

This hand requires more planning then that. I think the best line is QS, finesse diam. If that wins, 3s pitching a diam, AD, ruff a diam with QH, small heart to AK and dummy is good, losing only the 3rd trump while retaining a trump in dummy for entry. Needs spades 43, diam 32, KD onside and hearts 31.

If KD loses and get another club back, ruff in dummy. 3s pitching a diam. AD and ruff diam with QH. Now heart to dummy drawing trump, dummy is good. Needs spades 43, diam 32, KD offside, and hearts 22.

[Trpltrbl]

PriorKnowledge, on Jul 7 2004, 03:13 PM, said:

Trpltrbl, on Jul 7 2004, 04:03 PM, said:

Pull 2 trump and play ♠, pitching ♦.
Start X ruffing.

Mike 

Sorry, mike, you end up a trick short after opps ruff 4th spade or overruff a diam
[(5h + 3s) or (4h+4s)] + 2c ruffs in dummy + 1d = 11

Oops, sorry, forgot about little detail there.
Just got done playing 36 holes of golf, will think little better now.
With ♥ 2-2 it's a matter of making 12 or 13 tricks, so not going to bother with that.
So let's try 3-1 or even 4-0.
With 3-1 I can make with the 3 card trump together with the 4 or more ♠ and if not I need the ♦ finesse.
With trump 4-0 I really need the 4 trump with 4 or more ♠ and ♦ finesse to work.
I just hate to lose to singleton ♦ K.
I can handle trump 3-1 onside, with K of ♦ offside and at least 3 ♠ with that hand.
Ruff ♣, Q ♠, ruff ♣, AK ♥, A♦, and start playing ♠ from top, pitching ♣ on 3rd ♠. If 4th♠ is ruffed overruff, and play towards Q ♦.
If 4th ♠ is not ruffed, you are home.

Mike

[cnszsun]

Inspired by what have been said, i take the following line:
Ruff club, and play ♥A and K,
if 2-2, you are home, win 5♥s+2♣ ruff+4♠s+1♦;
if East has 3 trumps, play ♠s to discard ♦s, if East can't ruff, you are home, don't need to take ♦ finesse; if East ruff your ♠, you overruff and revert to ♦ finesse;
if West has 3 trumps, just play 3rd ♥ and take ♦ finesse.

[luis]

PriorKnowledge, on Jul 7 2004, 09:17 PM, said:

a very reasonable line...
lets give west = xxx xxx Kxx KQxx east = xxxx x xx AJ10xxx and see what happens.
west ruffs the 4th spade and leads another club. AD, ruff diam low. ruff last club in dummy with KH, ruff another diam in hand low. After 10 tricks, lead in South:

     S
     H A
     D Qx
     C
 S         S
 H xx      H x
 D         D
 C x       C Ax
     S
     H Qxx
     D
     C

Looks like you are down... and KD was onside.

This hand requires more planning then that. I think the best line is QS, finesse diam. If that wins, 3s pitching a diam, AD, ruff a diam with QH, small heart to AK and dummy is good, losing only the 3rd trump while retaining a trump in dummy for entry. Needs spades 43, diam 32, KD onside and hearts 31.

If KD loses and get another club back, ruff in dummy. 3s pitching a diam. AD and ruff diam with QH. Now heart to dummy drawing trump, dummy is good. Needs spades 43, diam 32, KD offside, and hearts 22.

I think you are wrong.
If west ruffs the 4th spade and returns a club you ruff in dummy, play dA and diamond ruff. And now when you see diamonds are 3-2 why the hell ruff a club? heart to the K, diamond ruff with the hQ if needed and heart to the ace drawing the last trump and cash the diamonds. Making 6.

[PriorKnowledge]

no... in my line, don't play the 4th spade before setting up the diam. take diam finesse, play 3 spades, then AD and ruff a diam. That sets up the diam while you still have entries to dummy.

[PriorKnowledge]

a good rule of thumb here:
When you want to both trump and set up a long suit in dummy, save the trumping for last to use as entries

[luis]

PriorKnowledge, on Jul 8 2004, 01:36 PM, said:

no... in my line, don't play the 4th spade before setting up the diam. take diam finesse, play 3 spades, then AD and ruff a diam. That sets up the diam while you still have entries to dummy.

You can win the hand even if you can't stablish diamonds. Your line is dangerous when diamonds are 4-1, cashing the 4 spades I think can still succeed if diamonds are 4-1 and trumps are not bad, because you can make 12 tricks ruffing the 3 clubs.

[PriorKnowledge]

luis, my line works with spades 43, diam 32, and either kd onside and hearts 31 or kd offside and hearts 22

so far you have said my line is wrong, but have not shown how your line works. I have shown how your line does not work. Now you say my line is dangerous if diam 4-1? Right. My line fails.

Show me trick-by-trick ANY line that will work when my line fails when diam are 4-1 and you start with 4 rounds of spades.

Talk is cheap

[luis]

PriorKnowledge, on Jul 8 2004, 02:58 PM, said:

luis, my line works with spades 43, diam 32, and either kd onside and hearts 31 or kd offside and hearts 22

so far you have said my line is wrong, but have not shown how your line works. I have shown how your line does not work. Now you say my line is dangerous if diam 4-1? Right. My line fails.

Show me trick-by-trick ANY line that will work when my line fails when diam are 4-1 and you start with 4 rounds of spades.

Talk is cheap

Ah how I like aggressive posts .... specially when they are wrong.

---

Your line: Diamond finesse, diamond ruff, one down at trick 3.
My line: West ruffs the 4th spade, and returns a club, ruff in dummy, cash the hA, Diamond Ace and diamond ruff. club ruff with the K. Diamond and you can ruff low and draw the remaining trump or overruff the last trump that east has.

I'm not saying that I'm sure my line is better it's only what I think.
What I am sure is that is not worth discussing with you.

Talk is VERY cheap.

[andych]

Thanks for all the reply. It is a hand played in a team match. EW hands are

W hand
Sxxx
HJxx
DKx
CAKxxxx


E hand
S xxxxx
Hx
Dxxx
CQxxxxx

Play went as below. I want to avoid D fin and plan to make 2 C ruff in dummy. getting I hope 7H (2 C ruff), 4S, 1D, I could achieve that for 22 H break, or E has 3H (which I think is morely likely if H not 22) as W overcall 2C, and for same reason E would have more than 3S

1. CK* Hx Cx Cx
2. Sx Sx* Sx SQ
3. Cx Hx Cx Cx*
4. Hx HA* Hx Hx
5. Hx HK* Cx Hx

I went into trouble now W still has HJ and I have no entry back to hand

6. Sx SA* Sx Sx
7. Sx SK* Sx Cx
8. Cx SJ* Sx Dx

9. I try small D from table. E has a short pause and follow a middle D. I follow D. W paused also and follow a D (smaller than E). E on lead on trick 10

10. E paused again and finally put a C on table at trick 10. I ruffed, draw last trump and claim.

I said I would go down if E return D.
W blamed E. Then we reveal
W could overtake 9th trick with DK and return D and wait for his trump promotion then. Then we reveal
I should play DA at 9th trick and small D. E has no defence holding DKx




Anyway 6H make at my table. 4H bid/make at other table. Didnt care 11/12 trick were taken.


My pd thought finesse D after SQ to hand is best, because W 2C overcall should make him obvious with DK.

I make inference on distribution from W 2C overcall. My pd make inference for points from W 2C overcall.....

Sounds my pd is correct on this hand.
I was not too wrong when W has 6 clubs ...... though he has only 5.


What is best line?

[luis]

PriorKnowledge, on Jul 8 2004, 02:58 PM, said:

luis, my line works with spades 43, diam 32, and either kd onside and hearts 31 or kd offside and hearts 22

so far you have said my line is wrong, but have not shown how your line works. I have shown how your line does not work. Now you say my line is dangerous if diam 4-1? Right. My line fails.

Show me trick-by-trick ANY line that will work when my line fails when diam are 4-1 and you start with 4 rounds of spades.

Talk is cheap

In an excess of imagination when the diamond K is offside and the fourth spade is ruffed you are also one down automatically.

[luis]

andych, on Jul 8 2004, 03:20 PM, said:

Thanks for all the reply. It is a hand played in a team match. EW hands are

W hand
Sxxx
HJxx
DKx
CAKxxxx


E hand
S xxxxx
Hx
Dxxx
CQxxxxx

Play went as below. I want to avoid D fin and plan to make 2 C ruff in dummy. getting I hope 7H (2 C ruff), 4S, 1D, I could achieve that for 22 H break, or E has 3H (which I think is morely likely if H not 22) as W overcall 2C, and for same reason E would have more than 3S

1. CK* Hx Cx Cx
2. Sx Sx* Sx SQ
3. Cx Hx Cx Cx*
4. Hx HA* Hx Hx
5. Hx HK* Cx Hx

I went into trouble now W still has HJ and I have no entry back to hand

6. Sx SA* Sx Sx
7. Sx SK* Sx Cx
8. Cx SJ* Sx Dx

9. I try small D from table. E has a short pause and follow a middle D. I follow D. W paused also and follow a D (smaller than E). E on lead on trick 10

10. E paused again and finally put a C on table at trick 10. I ruffed, draw last trump and claim.

I said I would go down if E return D.
W blamed E. Then we reveal
W could overtake 9th trick with DK and return D and wait for his trump promotion then. Then we reveal
I should play DA at 9th trick and small D. E has no defence holding DKx




Anyway 6H make at my table. 4H bid/make at other table. Didnt care 11/12 trick were taken.


My pd thought finesse D after SQ to hand is best, because W 2C overcall should make him obvious with DK.

I make inference on distribution from W 2C overcall. My pd make inference for points from W 2C overcall.....

Sounds my pd is correct on this hand.
I was not too wrong when W has 6 clubs ...... though he has only 5.


What is best line?

Ruff the club and play the 4 spades, if east ruffs just discard a 2nd diamond, and they can't do anything to prevent you from taking 12 tricks (5h, 1d, 3s, 3 club ruffs). if east returns a trump (note he can't return a diamond) you take the trump in dummy, play dA, diamond ruff (the king falling) now trump to dummy and diamonds are good.

[luis]

Forgot to add that Priorknowledge's line is down one on the given layout. So there you have YET another example dear PK