[nige1]

barmar, on Dec 22 2009, 12:05 AM, said:

The list in the alert procedure doesn't mention Unusual NT, yet everyone knows that NT bids that are unlikely to be natural are almost always some form of takeout, usually a 2-suiter.  It also doesn't mention 1NT overcall by a passed hand, but surely it's GBK that this is unusual or sandwich, and doesn't require an alert.

I know several posts said there are players who play this sequence as natural, but I have a hard time understanding how this can be reasonable.  The example given was what to do if you have 10 HCP and a spade stop.  Since the balancing double only shows around 10 HCP (with more he would have doubled at his previous turn), and could be even weaker, there's almost no safety in 2NT.

If I understand them correctly, I agree with Bluejak that it is local alert regulations that define what is alertable. Unless general bridge knowledge is part of those regulations, it can be relevant only in damage assessment.

The ACBL regulation specifies what kinds of widely understood conventional bid are not alertable. Among the types of convention that are missing from that list, presumably deliberately missing, are

• 2N response = 2 places to play
  
• 2N overcall = unusual

FWIW, without discussion, I would assume both these 2N bids to be natural. Although I admit that my Scottish partner did take the precaution of warning me that his 2N overcall is like a 2N opening bid.

Outsiders resent it when opponents assume that some local idiosyncrasy is GBK; and I feel that directors should be chary of such claims.

Oh dear I've just read Blackshoe's post about ACBL 2N jump overcalls Well At least I've learnt something

[Jlall]

jdonn, on Dec 22 2009, 06:50 PM, said:

I honestly wouldn't have thought to alert since it seems so normal to me. If it's supposed to be alerted then fine, but I don't think a failure to alert is likely to have caused damage in this case. Of course it would help to know the hands.

Yeah, I never alerted any of these scrambling 2N bids and one opp got mad at me and the director informed me that I had to alert it. Glad to see that he was correct, I have been alerting since that incident, but I think most people in the ACBL are not aware that it is technically an alert.

[aguahombre]

yep, justin..u got that right. If there are a few players who still think there is a conceivable hand where 2NT would be other than scrambling, we should alert it and then explain it because it is "highly expected". I hope others won't feel insulted that we did that.

[debrose]

There are many auctions in which 2N could be played as either takeout, Lebensohl, or natural. I believe that some partnerships have either clear enough rules, or sufficient partnership experience, to virtually always be on the same wavelength as to which it is. IMO those partnerships should always alert 2N if it is something other than natural, unless it's a situation where there is no chance that their opponents could think it's anything but what it is. 1S-P-2S-P, P-2N would be such an example. Yes, I do take into account who the opponents are when deciding whether or not to alert.

In the given auction I think all "modern" experts would treat 2N as takeout, but perhaps a few more "old-fashioned" experts would think it's natural. And what if you are playing against non-experts? I never see the harm in alerting if you clearly know what partner's bid means and there's any chance the opponents might not. That's assuming your knowledge is based on a partnership agreement - whether it's about the specific auction, derived from general principles, or based on extensive partnership experience. Of course if your certainty is based on what you have in your hand, that's different.

When I've often found myself unsure whether or not to alert 2N, it's when I feel it's probably takeout, but I'm in a partnership without clear agreements. Against experts, if it's an auction I expect they know many would treat as takeout, I usually won't alert unless I'm sure. Against players who I think might have less reason than I do to suspect 2N is takeout, I'll usually alert. If all the players are of about equal general bridge knowledge, and the partnership has no special agreement, I certainly wouldn't alert, or expect one from my opponents. When they bid 2N in an ambiguous auction, I've often asked if my opponents have any relevant agreements, even if they don't alert.

[debrose]

Hadn't seen Justin's post when started my reply. Glad to know that at least one director confirmed these bids are alertable. Thanks.

[paulg]

debrose, on Dec 23 2009, 03:21 AM, said:

There are many auctions in which 2N could be played as either takeout, Lebensohl, or natural. I believe that some partnerships have either clear enough rules, or sufficient partnership experience, to virtually always be on the same wavelength as to which it is. IMO those partnerships should always alert 2N if it is something other than natural, unless it's a situation where there is no chance that their opponents could think it's anything but what it is. 1S-P-2S-P, P-2N would be such an example. Yes, I do take into account who the opponents are when deciding whether or not to alert.

In the given auction I think all "modern" experts would treat 2N as takeout, but perhaps a few more "old-fashioned" experts would think it's natural. And what if you are playing against non-experts? I never see the harm in alerting if you clearly know what partner's bid means and there's any chance the opponents might not. That's assuming your knowledge is based on a partnership agreement - whether it's about the specific auction, derived from general principles, or based on extensive partnership experience. Of course if your certainty is based on what you have in your hand, that's different.

When I've often found myself unsure whether or not to alert 2N, it's when I feel it's probably takeout, but I'm in a partnership without clear agreements. Against experts, if it's an auction I expect they know many would treat as takeout, I usually won't alert unless I'm sure. Against players who I think might have less reason than I do to suspect 2N is takeout, I'll usually alert. If all the players are of about equal general bridge knowledge, and the partnership has no special agreement, I certainly wouldn't alert, or expect one from my opponents. When they bid 2N in an ambiguous auction, I've often asked if my opponents have any relevant agreements, even if they don't alert.

Where is the "I like this" button?