[Rossoneri]

BBC link

Personally, facing the possibility of having my flight back to London from Vienna on Christmas Eve cancelled is not very funny.

[mike777]

Rossoneri, on Dec 15 2009, 05:46 AM, said:

BBC link

Personally, facing the possibility of having my flight back to London from Vienna on Christmas Eve cancelled is not very funny.

Personally I am all in favor of unions and voting.


Personally I could care less about rich people who have money to fly.

[Echognome]

mike777, on Dec 15 2009, 04:01 AM, said:

Personally I could care less about rich people who have money to fly.

Quote

International passenger demand is expected to rise from 760 million passengers in 2006 to 980 million in 2011 at an annual average growth rate (AAGR) of 5.1%. This will be lower than the 7.4% AAGR recorded during 2002-2006, largely due to slightly slower global economic growth.

Domestic passenger demand is expected grow from 1.37 billion passengers in 2006 to 1.77 billion in 2011, an AAGR of 5.3%, fuelled by expansion in the Indian and Chinese domestic markets.

So in your world, there are a heckuva lot of rich people.

[Trumpace]

Echognome, on Dec 15 2009, 01:31 PM, said:

mike777, on Dec 15 2009, 04:01 AM, said:

Personally I could care less about rich people who have money to fly.

Quote

International passenger demand is expected to rise from 760 million passengers in 2006 to 980 million in 2011 at an annual average growth rate (AAGR) of 5.1%. This will be lower than the 7.4% AAGR recorded during 2002-2006, largely due to slightly slower global economic growth.

Domestic passenger demand is expected grow from 1.37 billion passengers in 2006 to 1.77 billion in 2011, an AAGR of 5.3%, fuelled by expansion in the Indian and Chinese domestic markets.

So in your world, there are a heckuva lot of rich people.

Is that 1.37 billion unique people? That seems like a lot.

[bid_em_up]

"How a union is going to ruin Christmas for some"

And I thought this was going to be a thread about the elves going on strike.

[Echognome]

Trumpace, on Dec 15 2009, 10:58 AM, said:

Is that 1.37 billion unique people? That seems like a lot.

No. Not unique. On my 15 second search, I didn't find any data on the number of unique travelers. But the point is there, that maybe in 1960 if you traveled by airplane, you were probably considered to be rich. That is no longer the case today. So one saying that they do not have sympathy for someone who travels by airplane, because they must be rich, is (1) covering a large percentage of the population (in particular in developed countries) and (2) really doesn't understand that air travel is for the masses (again more so in developed countries) than for the elite.

[luke warm]

it's not so much about being rich as it is about the number of carbon footprints being left... a carbon tax would cut down a lot on that number of flyers, i bet... then we'd be back to what it should be, only the rich able to fly

[blackshoe]

I think we should all huddle in caves. No TV, no Internet, no electricity, no indoor plumbing. And certainly no flying. Probably no going farther than about ten miles from our cave. That'd solve all this global warming, who's rich and who's not, and how big is your carbon footprint business.

[jonottawa]

Some of us are too smart for our own good.

http://www.vimeo.com/4835556

[hrothgar]

luke warm, on Dec 16 2009, 12:34 AM, said:

it's not so much about being rich as it is about the number of carbon footprints being left... a carbon tax would cut down a lot on that number of flyers, i bet... then we'd be back to what it should be, only the rich able to fly

How amusing to see the conservatives bitching that money brings privileges.

For what its worth, a carbon tax probably would cut down on the number of flights that people take. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that.

The whole idea of a carbon tax is to discourage externalties.
I understand that Jimmy and Ed prefer living a lifestyle where they get to piss all over other folks and let other people clean up their mess. This is the American way after all... Do whatever the frak you want, and let some other generation pay for things.

[Winstonm]

Quote

How a union is going to ruin Christmas for some, BA cabin crew strike

Interesting the way you apportion blame 100% to the union - it couldn't be that the union grievance is justified and it is management's decisions that truly led to your plight?

Or perhaps it is even a combination of faults? Or perhaps it is your own fault for booking on an airline that is having financial difficulties and labor problems?

[blackshoe]

hrothgar, on Dec 15 2009, 06:53 PM, said:

I understand that Jimmy and Ed prefer living a lifestyle where they get to piss all over other folks and let other people clean up their mess.

You understand nothing.

[kenberg]

Rossoneri, on Dec 15 2009, 05:46 AM, said:

BBC link

Personally, facing the possibility of having my flight back to London from Vienna on Christmas Eve cancelled is not very funny.

Quote

"The changes that we introduced in the middle of November will not be reversed. Those changes enabled us to offer voluntary redundancy to 1,000 cabin crew and those people have left the business."

Voluntary redundancy? I have never been offered voluntary redundancy. If I ever am, I hope they will explain what it means. Is it an offer that one can refuse? Would I be right in thinking this would mainly consist of volunteering to find a new job?

[Phil]

hrothgar, on Dec 15 2009, 06:53 PM, said:

Do whatever the frak you want, and let some other generation pay for things.

Would this include the 12 trillion dollar deficit?

Sorry, couldn't resist

[barmar]

kenberg, on Dec 15 2009, 10:10 PM, said:

Voluntary redundancy? I have never been offered voluntary redundancy. If I ever am, I hope they will explain what it means. Is it an offer that one can refuse? Would I be right in thinking this would mainly consist of volunteering to find a new job?

This sounds like what I've heard called "early retirement". Basically, people who were planning on retiring or looking for new jobs get to volunteer to be laid off. They get severance packages or pensions as if they'd been laid off or retired, which they wouldn't get if they just quit. This is a win-win situation: the company reduces its head count, employees who were going to leave soon anyway get additional benefits, and fewer employees are fired.

If there aren't enough volunteers, the company will have to lay off employees to reach their workforce reduction goal, so you might end up among the chosen. I suspect most companies offer incentives to volunteer (i.e. a larger severance package), so if you think you're likely to be on the chopping block, it would be a good idea to volunteer rather than wait for them to call you.

[shyams]

In my opinion, the strike will help:
1. polarise the opinion of the British people against the flag-bearer airline.
2. increase the possibility of an eventual demise of BA
3. in some distorted way, cost the striking cabin crew more

After the recent large scale bail-outs (banks + automobile cos + what else?), there must be an idea in the minds of the Unions that if BA goes bankrupt, the UK Govt will step in and save it.

I will be really surprised if it happens. This is one company which (though probably not close to bankruptcy) will probably go the way of Swiss Air, KLM etc....

A major Spanish bank (Santander) already owns some key UK high-street banks. Perhaps in the near future, a major Spanish airline co (Iberia) will own BA.

[Ant590]

I think the problem is that the Union balloted all members, including those who have been given voluntary redundancy as well. This may make the strike action illegal --- BA are going to court on this very issue today.

[shyams]

Ant590, on Dec 16 2009, 09:58 AM, said:

I think the problem is that the Union balloted all members, including those who have been given voluntary redundancy as well. This may make the strike action illegal --- BA are going to court on this very issue today.

If the courts rule this illegal, something worse could happen.

The cabin crew could decide to take sick leave or some such things en masse.. An unscheduled action (with similar disruptive actions of a strike) would come out much worse than a planned strike.

[kenberg]

barmar, on Dec 16 2009, 01:03 AM, said:

kenberg, on Dec 15 2009, 10:10 PM, said:

Voluntary redundancy? I have never been offered voluntary redundancy. If I ever am, I hope they will explain what it means. Is it an offer that one can refuse? Would I be right in thinking this would mainly consist of volunteering to find a new job?

This sounds like what I've heard called "early retirement". Basically, people who were planning on retiring or looking for new jobs get to volunteer to be laid off. They get severance packages or pensions as if they'd been laid off or retired, which they wouldn't get if they just quit. This is a win-win situation: the company reduces its head count, employees who were going to leave soon anyway get additional benefits, and fewer employees are fired.

If there aren't enough volunteers, the company will have to lay off employees to reach their workforce reduction goal, so you might end up among the chosen. I suspect most companies offer incentives to volunteer (i.e. a larger severance package), so if you think you're likely to be on the chopping block, it would be a good idea to volunteer rather than wait for them to call you.

I was just being amused at the terminology. Do they have someone locked away somewhere making this stuff up?

Strikes happen. I rerely try to determine who is being the most unreasonable. Long ago several of us were canoeing in northern Manitoba. The roads end at The Pas, a train goes north up th Flion Flon, we got off in between and canoed. Wehn we got back, the hermit fisherman there told us the trains were on strike. We had used our provisions so it was stay there eating fish for breakfast lunch and supper or take a hike. We left the canoes for the fisherman to ship back cod, and walked some 35-40 miles up to Flin Flon along the tracks, then flew back to The Pas. Not exactly the best part of the trip but I still have fond memories of it.

In the current situation, I think I would be looking for alternative ways to get back. My European geography sucks but maybe a train to Paris and a bus to London? I assume trains don't go through the chunnel.

[blackshoe]

IIRC, trains do go through the chunnel - at least they did. I remember a lot of construction at one of the train stations in London in support of this when I was there (19990-1993).