[TylerE]

♠
♥ Kxx
♦ AKxxxxx
♣ KJx

♠AKQ98xx
♥ xx
♦ J
♣ AQx

East deals, all red at MP

(p) - 1♠ - (p) - 2♦ (GF)
(p) - 3♠ - (p) - 3NT
(p) - 6♠ - (X) - ap

-1 with LHO holding A♥ and JTxx of ♠.


Hand fixed

[pooltuna]

TylerE, on Dec 19 2009, 07:35 PM, said:

♠
♥ Kx
♦ AKxxxxx
♣ KJxx

♠AKQ98xx
♥ xx
♦ J
♣ KJxx

East deals, all red at MP

(p) - 1♠ - (p) - 2♦ (GF)
(p) - 3♠ - (p) - 3NT
(p) - 6♠ - (X) - ap

-1 with LHO holding A♥ and JTxx of ♠.

assuming a 2 or more board set you need to both use cards from the same board

[mr1303]

South 120%

6S is a wild leap in the dark with 2 heart losers, and he has already shown his extra values by bidding 3S (I assume?)

Incidentally, you have both hands with KJxx of clubs. Presumably South has AQxx of clubs?

[pooltuna]

mr1303, on Dec 19 2009, 07:47 PM, said:

South 120%

6S is a wild leap in the dark with 2 heart losers, and he has already shown his extra values by bidding 3S (I assume?)

Incidentally, you have both hands with KJxx of clubs. Presumably South has AQxx of clubs?

card nazi says 7214

[EricK]

6♠ must surely get all the blame (unless we now apportion blame for holding a void in partner's suit - in which case 6♠ gets very nearly all the blame).

[gwnn]

TylerE, on Dec 20 2009, 12:35 AM, said:

Hand fixed

disagree w/ tylere.

[whereagles]

South seems to have forgotten pard's 3NT at this stage does not promise any sort of support for spades...

or perhaps he has just trying to be a hero and, as usual, ended up embarassed.. lol.

[pooltuna]

TylerE, on Dec 19 2009, 07:35 PM, said:

♠
♥ Kxx
♦ AKxxxxx
♣ AQx

♠AKQ98xx
♥ xx
♦ J
♣ KJxx

East deals, all red at MP

(p) - 1♠ - (p) - 2♦ (GF)
(p) - 3♠ - (p) - 3NT
(p) - 6♠ - (X) - ap

-1 with LHO holding A♥ and JTxx of ♠.


Hand fixed

Generally I think South gets most of the blame depending on what the 14th card is. 3♠ is the wrong call as you don't have the high cards to make it. The correct call is either 4♠ (has 7) or 2♠(has 6). I could tolerate 3♣ (6214) if it doesn't show extras. And the 6♠ call is just off the chart. If you make that bid and go down you have apologize immediately, perhaps "sp, took a flyer and forgot my wings were in the shop"

[mikeh]

I don't like any of the calls after 2♦.

I have sympathy for 3♠, but in my understanding of 2/1 gf, it sets trump opposite a void (at least, that has always been my interpretation) and this suit is just a shade too weak....AKQJxx is prototypical, and I'd live with AKQ10xxx, but AKQ98xx is not quite enough.

3N is abysmal..... opposite as little as AKQJxx Qxx x Axx, slam has decent play and partner will pass 3N with that or even slightly better hands.

I would prefer 4♦.....as a cue....this relies upon the assurance afforded by 3♠....if partner has the long, no-loser spade suit, then surely we are slam positive with our side controls and AKxxxx suit?

To bid 6♠ is odd...tho I suspect that S inferred that the 3N bid implied at least one spade...it would, for me. If responder has a pile of crap for the 2♦ bid, and wants to shut it down, he does so, with a void, by raising....the void is irrelevant...that's the point of the 3♠ bid. So 3N should suggest at least one spade. However, 3N should deliver a softer hand, such that 2 Aces could easily be missing.

I assign the blame almost equally, but South made two errors, and the last one was a big one, so he gets a bit more than does North...

[hanp]

Definitely agree with 3S.

[Fluffy]

I would also bid 3♠ with that hand, if you bid 2♠ you won't be comfortable whatever happens next.

North's hand isn't so huge now, spade void is not good, and one of our kings is facing a singleton, so I agree with 3NT

south should bid 4♣ and then sing off after partner's 4♦. Now north can get the bright idea of reaching 6NT (wich would be best slam if north had ♦10 or 9).

Still he should just invite to slam, he can do it with 5♣ (implies ♥ control) or 5♠, 5♠ would work wonderfully as the cards lie.

[kenrexford]

3♠ is not completely ridiculous, as it sets forth a practical auction on an assumption (one spade from partner or a 3-3 split) that is not as off-base as it seems, as finding out that partner has a void in spades is really difficult.

Having done this, though, 3NT should have a meaning other than complete rejection of spades. 3♠ set spades as trumps. Thus, we are not playing 3NT. Hence, 3NT must show something encouraging in spades, I would assume.

Why to then leap to 6♠ is a mystery, but then I need to know what 3NT meant.

[aguahombre]

Although 3S is not ridiculous (Ken) --it violates some people's idea that, when the auction has already committed us to game, suit jumps should show very specific holdings. Otherwise, slow is good.

1S 2D
2S 3D
3S 3NT

Nine tricks. Next hand.

or

1S 2D
2S 3D
3S 3N
4C 4D
4S

11 tricks. Next hand.

I like the second one because responder will know there are two major suit losers due to the failure to jump rebid spades (can't play solid opp void) and failure to bid 4H (denies 1st round control).

[kenrexford]

aguahombre, on Dec 21 2009, 12:22 PM, said:

Although 3S is not ridiculous (Ken) --it violates some people's idea that, when the auction has already committed us to game, suit jumps should show very specific holdings. Otherwise, slow is good.

1S 2D
2S 3D
3S 3NT

Nine tricks. Next hand.

or

1S 2D
2S 3D
3S 3N
4C 4D
4S

11 tricks. Next hand.

I like the second one because responder will know there are two major suit losers due to the failure to jump rebid spades (can't play solid opp void) and failure to bid 4H (denies 1st round control).

Yes, but the actual decision to bid 3♠ does not necessarily cause the bad result. Suppose, for instance, that Responder follows Opener's direction and just cues:

1♠-2♦
3♠-4♣
4♠

Now, passing is an option.

[pooltuna]

hanp, on Dec 21 2009, 08:22 AM, said:

Definitely agree with 3S.

EDIT after finally seeing the actual hand 3♠ is now an acceptable call and is too strong for either 2 or 4♠

[aguahombre]

kenrexford, on Dec 21 2009, 10:34 AM, said:

Yes, but the actual decision to bid 3♠ does not necessarily cause the bad result.  Suppose, for instance, that Responder follows Opener's direction and just cues:

1♠-2♦
3♠-4♣
4♠

Now, passing is an option.

Passing certainly is an option on that sequence, but on that sequence 4S by opener is not a comfortable bid.

Opener does not know about the spade void and has shown, say AKQJXXX JX Q QXX -- but actually has extras. We could probably get out in 5 spades, though on the actual hands..and still make if the heart ace is favorably located or the spades break.

[gwnn]

kenrexford, on Dec 21 2009, 04:50 PM, said:

Why to then leap to 6♠ is a mystery, but then I need to know what 3NT meant.

unless 3NT is slam forcing and inviting 7, 6♠ is completely incomprehensible and very bad.

[kenrexford]

gwnn, on Dec 21 2009, 12:53 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Dec 21 2009, 04:50 PM, said:

Why to then leap to 6♠ is a mystery, but then I need to know what 3NT meant.

unless 3NT is slam forcing and inviting 7, 6♠ is completely incomprehensible and very bad.

If 3NT is what it sounds like -- serious slam interest -- then 6♠ meakes a lot of sense. So, we need to know what 3NT means.

BTW, if 3NT is frivolous, this makes the auction tremendous, if "frivolous" means "I have a void in spades, dammit." That is, until the 6♠ call. A "frivolous 3NT" meaning would make 3♠ a more appealing call, as then 4♣ would show a club control and a stiff spade OR better controls (like the heart Ace rather than the King).

[billw55]

aha, apparently a 7-card suit to the AKQ can, in fact, lose a trick to the jack. Now where can this revealing information be applied ...

[peachy]

3S rebid by opener is normal, shows a solidish suit (one loser in suit at the most) and sets trumps. 4D by responder is cue, then opener rebids 4S denying heart control and we end up probably in 5S.

Jump to 6S was a bit weird, so was 3NT when slam is still VERY possible. Just go along with opener and give him the diamond cuebid.