[kgr]

1♥-(3♣)-3♠-(5♣)
5♠??
 
Does 5♠ here promise extra's or can it be bid with a minimal hand?
 
What do you bid with? 5♠, pass, DBL?:

Scoring: IMP

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[TylerE]

Doesn't show extras, but also shows no doubt on the play/defend question.

I wouldn't even THINK about bidding it with this hand. Give partner a chance to whack off 5♣, which could easily be going for 800 with 5♠ off 3 tricks.

A 5♠ bid would imo be something more lik: Axxx AKJxxx xxx -, a hand with more offense and less defense. WIlling to see partner punt 6 with a good hand also.

[andy_h]

How come you left out the vulnerability? It's quite important as certain forcing pass auctions may arise. Anyway, assuming no agreed types of forcing passes or what not, it's likely that partner will have a singleton club so I will bid 5♠. Partner has literally gameforced with 3♠ and I have Axxx support with AKJ9x side suit. 5♠ is just competitive as double would highly suggest defending.

Quote

A 5♠ bid would imo be something more lik: Axxx AKJxxx xxx -

This strong of a hand? This is like a 6♣ bid.

[gnasher]

andy_h, on Dec 1 2009, 04:15 PM, said:

How come you left out the vulnerability? It's quite important as certain forcing pass auctions may arise.

Are you saying that at some vulnerabilities a pass would be non-forcing? The first entry in my list of forcing pass situations is "We have game-forced without first finding a fit."

[kfay]

I would bid 5♠ with this hand. Partner's a huge favorite to have a stiff club at the most (it is possible they do not).

I've got a totally righteous ♥ suit where p can pitch ♦s. The only reason not to bid 5♠ would be if you're scared they would raise to slam....

Hence the thread I suppose. No, after a game forcing 3♠, I am not promising any REAL extras, but I have good controls.

[mcphee]

The first thing you want to know is, would pass of 5C create a force. Partner is very unlikely to bid 5S on his own power when you hold A 4th. What do we do over 5H if we pass, or 5D. I raise to 5S and remove all pressure. It may well go down but I like my chances needing a D control in partners hand to give the 5 level a valid chance.

we have
dbl
pass and pull
direct raise
new suit
repeat our suit

I do not believe dble will express what I have in the way of support. If I pass the most likely bid from partner will be dble. If not he may bid D, i can easily raise S then, or raise H and I can, show S support now?

[pooltuna]

[quote name='kgr' date='Dec 1 2009, 09:25 AM']1[he]-(3[cl])-3[sp]-(5[cl])
5[sp]??
 
Does 5[sp] here promise extra's or can it be bid with a minimal hand?
 
What do you bid with? 5[sp], pass, DBL?:

Scoring: IMP

♠	KQJTxx
♥	xx
♦	Kxx
♣	xx

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or an NFB where partner thinks it is more important to show his suit like

Scoring: IMP

♠	KQJTxx
♥	xx
♦	Kxx
♣	xx

---

Then you are just paying the price for using NFBs (i.e. you are screwed)

Otherwise I have no problem with 5[sp]

[billw55]

5♠, support with support.

White on red, maybe double with good defense.

[kgr]

andy_h, on Dec 1 2009, 05:15 PM, said:

How come you left out the vulnerability? It's quite important as certain forcing pass auctions may arise.

You are Vulner vs Not
(This question was triggered from bidding pracitce of R.Pavlicek site and vulnerability was not mentioned in result doc. I went back to West hand doc to check the vuln for you).
PS: These bidding practices are a fun way to improve your bidding understandings with your partner. We do it via mail, whenever we have time to have a look at it.

pooltuna said:

depends on what 3♠ was if it was a negative free bid (NFB) like

Actually partner did bid 3♦=GF with ♠ ; 3♠ would have been GF with ♦.
(I have no idea why we do this. It comes from a system we took from somebody else...so if anyone can give the advantage of it then that would be useful )

[gwnn]

if you play 3♦ as GF with ♠ and not just inv+ with ♠, I see no advantage (it is not clear to me why it is less important to sort out heart length if I promise diamonds than if I promise spades). I do play 3♦=inv+ with spades and 3♠=gf with diamonds (or can we stop in 4♦??) in one partnership and it has never come up but if it had come up, then it would have been great to have.

[jdonn]

I love the 5♠ bid on this hand.

[peachy]

3S created gf (in essence it did because we cannot pass 3S if the other opponent passes). Pass by opener over 5C is forcing, leaving decision to partner. Therefore, you cannot Pass. If you do, and partner then doubles, your pull to 5S shows a hand that partner is allowed to raise to six.

I think 5S directly over 5C is very clear, whether it makes or not.

[kgr]

Thanks all for the answers.
(I think that 5♠ and 5♣ should go down. in the bidding practice example bidding they passed and responder DBL'ed).