[mr1303]

Scoring: MP

---

1H 2NT
3S 4NT
5S 7H

All Pass

I actually made this on a misdefence against some beginners, but against most pairs this should go off.

Unlucky, or bad judgement?

2NT was Jacoby
3S showed shortage
4NT was RKCB
5S showed 2+ Q

[aguahombre]

North found out that South has an opening bid with a stiff spade. Blasting to a grand without knowing whether opener has a good hand or a bad hand --with that collection -- might have worked.

J2N can find shortness. Or it can find strength or weakness. . It can also find a two-suiter. One of these three can be discovered immediately--but only one. In this case, 5NT after finding out the answer to 4NT might have gotten lucky and found the club or spade (not quite as lucky, but might work) King.

Or, your blast might have succeeded if opener had QXX of diamonds. Some players could find out about the diamond queen after an RKC sequence if 6C/5NT was zero kings.

So your shot might have worked against competent defenders in addition to these opps, but better science might have uncovered what you needed to know.

[EricK]

In one sense it was unlucky. Based on the information North had at the time he punted the grand, it was quite likely to be on.

However, North jumped 3 times. Surely some of the bids he missed out, could have been used to find out more about South's hand. This will obviously depend on your exact methods, but here's one example: if you play that a "serious 3NT", demands partner bids his cheapest 1st or 2nd round control, then N would immediately discover that S does not hold ♣K.

[Codo]

Your partner had so many ways to ask the right questions but he failed.
3 NT was one idea, 5 NT after 5 Spade another one.

Of course, the slam does not depend only on the King of clubs, but without this you need the queen of diamonds to pitch norths club on it or KJ of spades to discard possible club loseres from south.

[hotShot]

Why didn't North ask about kings?
There was room to do so before 6♠ and any K would have made 7 a save bet. Jumping to 7 was an unnecessary risk.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I think, the bidding was reasonable.

In the end responder knowes, that there is no

heart looser
spade looser
diamond looser
1 looser in club

he sees 1 clubs looser, but opener only showed AKQ in hearts and a
spade shortage, i.e. there is a high chance, that one can get rid of
the club looser, so I would say bidding 7 is ok, if you dont have a lot
of sophisticated agreements in place.

As always the issue is: do you think, that you have to bid the grand, or
is small enough? Since you were playing against weaker players, maybe
6 would have been more than enough.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pooltuna]

Bad judgment ....Couldn't hurt to ask for K

[ONEferBRID]

No excuse not to make a Specific K-ask.
And you can even cater to the possibility of a stiff ♠K by using Meckwell's gimic of 4S! = RKCB for ♥ :

♠ AQ10x
♥ 10xxxx
♦ AK
♣ Ax

Adjusted hand for Opener ( note only 5h ):
♠ K
♥ AKQJx
♦ xxx
♣ Qxxx

1H - 2NT!
3S! - 4S!
5H ( 2 + hQ) - 5S ( Specific K-ask)
5NT ( ♠ K ) - 6C ( 2nd K-ask )
6H ( no other outside K's ) - ??*

* But Responder still can't count to a sure 13 tricks ( some folks--including experts-- requirement for bidding the grand ):
3s, 1s-ruff ( if J doesn't drop in 3), 5h, 2d, 1c = 12.

[jdonn]

At least partly unlucky, unless someone knows an ask that will find either spade king, club king, or diamond queen. Or another ask to find out if partner has the same honors he had but 1543.

[kenrexford]

jdonn, on Nov 27 2009, 11:33 AM, said:

At least partly unlucky, unless someone knows an ask that will find either spade king, club king, or diamond queen. Or another ask to find out if partner has the same honors he had but 1543.

Well, let's see.

Suppose we start with the good old 2♣ GF (clubs, or support) and see where that takes us.

If partner has been 1543, then his rebid of 2♦ would pay dividends later, perhaps.

On this hand, that is ruled out with a 2♥ rebid. Responder sets trumps (3♥) and gets an ambiguous 3♠ cue (if you cue shortness at this point, which I do). 3NT yields a 4♣ call (club King or Queen, if you cue that way as I do) which further adds to the mystery, temporarily.

Responder now bids 4NT and get's the two with the Queen answer. 5NT yields a 6♥ response --no Kings.

At this point, then, Opener is known to have shortness in spades, a sixth heart, no diamond control, and the club Queen. However, more is known.

Because Opener has originally denied a diamond control, his 6♥ response also denies the diamond Queen, because you would show that (logically) if you had it, having denied the King.

So, Opener has a stiff spade (not the King), AKQxxx in hearts, 2-3 diamonds without the Queen, and the club Queen, and not 1534 (would have raised clubs) or 1543 shape. Hence, Opener probably has 1633 shape with (x/J)-AKQxxx-(x/J)xx-Qxx.

That's fairly close, eh?

[jdonn]

kenrexford, on Nov 27 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

On this hand, that is ruled out with a 2♥ rebid.

lol

Quote

5NT yields a 6♥ response --no Kings.

lol

Wait what the heck, I was looking at the K AKQJx xxx Qxxx hand for both my posts. Um, oops?

[ONEferBRID]

jdonn, on Nov 27 2009, 12:12 PM, said:

Wait what the heck, I was looking at the K AKQJx xxx Qxxx hand for both my posts. Um, oops?

[ Chopped liver here ] .
Duhhh, and you didn't see my K-ask that allowed for finding the ♠ K ... if he had it ? .... which would still allow for showing the ♣ K whether or not Opener had the stiff ♠ K .

[mdaw]

I think 3NT is much better instead of RKCB.

1♥ - 2NT
3♠ - 3NT
4♥ - 4NT
5♠ - 6♦
6♥

6♦ is an intelligent ask about diamonds, partner know that we haven't ♦ cuebid. We should bid grand slam with ♦Q.

[aguahombre]

mdaw, on Dec 2 2009, 08:36 AM, said:

I think 3NT is much better instead of RKCB.

1♥ - 2NT
3♠ - 3NT
4♥ - 4NT
5♠ - 6♦
6♥

6♦ is an intelligent ask about diamonds, partner know that we haven't ♦ cuebid. We should bid grand slam with ♦Q.

yeh, kings are for wimps. If 6C=zero kings/5NT, you can do both.

[mdaw]

aguahombre, on Dec 2 2009, 10:48 AM, said:

yeh, kings are for wimps.  If 6C=zero kings/5NT, you can do both.

Well for me 6♦ after 6♣ is not so clear. I'm not sure which Queen is good ♣ or ♦ (i couldn't bid 6♣ - there was no space). Consider that good partner can bid 7 with hand like that: K AKQxxx xxx xxx, because he knows that ♠K is similar value as ♦Q, but with K AKQxxx xxxx xx he should stay in slam.

[whereagles]

Unlucky. It makes on ♠KJx and ♣K on your left, via a simple squeeze