[blackshoe]

Scoring: MP

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How do you think the bidding should go, everyone playing nothing fancy, just fairly standard SA or 2/1? Does it make a difference which system?

[kenrexford]

3♦-X-5♦-tanktanktanktank6♠

[karlson]

3♦ r/w? Too much for me.

2♦-2♠-4♦-5♦
p-5♠-p seems normal enough, and I think south can find a pass now

[kfay]

karlson, on Nov 19 2009, 03:49 PM, said:

3♦ r/w? Too much for me.

2♦-2♠-4♦-5♦
p-5♠-p seems normal enough, and I think south can find a pass now

I don't think 3♦ is crazy w/ a 6-4 and a great suit. Not everyone's cup of tea but I wouldn't argue about what's best because I wouldn't know.

But my partner's would expect this for a 2♦ first seat r/w so maybe I agree with you that 2♦ is a good start.

Anyway I think any South would be really hard pressed to stop short of slam. But if it DOES go 2♦-Banana-4♦-5♦ probably you're right he can find a pass. But I would be crying if i were in that seat. If the opps bid 5♦ ever well... I'm screwed and basically they backed me into bidding slam.

For the record, if it were Rexford's auction I would normally bid 5NT...6♠ with my regular p, which denies a 1st round diamond control and is a grand try. I think my hand is good enough and partner doesn't go crazy over this or anything, if he bids 7 I'm confident we'll make it.

[Jlall]

3D? Really? I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that even gnasher and 655321 would open 2D rather than 3D if they had that choice at these colors...

I would go with:

2D-2S-4D-5D-p-5S-p-p-p

if south was really feelin it. It is a common error to overevaluate stiff opposite stiff when you shouldn't be doing so. South only has a great hand because normally a stiff is awesome to ruff stuff and partner has less losers overall. Here partner is likely to have 1 and definitely at most 2 diamonds, so south cannot drive it home with keycard. I would expect most people to just keycard with his hand though, but I think that's a mistake.

Obviously north might double 2D rather than bid 2S also, but I prefer to get my 5 card suit in when 5-3 in the majors if at all possible.

[gnasher]

Jlall, on Nov 19 2009, 11:29 PM, said:

3D? Really? I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that even gnasher and 655321 would open 2D rather than 3D if they had that choice at these colors...

OK, you got me. 2♦. If ♦9 were ♦10, and you changed the scoring ...

[kenrexford]

I thought juniors were playing.

[655321]

OK, 2♦ at R/W if available. But 3♦ if 2♦ is not a weak 2 in diamonds.

[mohitz]

3D if playing precision. Playing 2/1, 2D - 2S - 5D - 5S all pass

[miguelm]

5D, with adverse colours and without a singleton (and at that point having no way to realize partner must be short in spades)...?
And me thinking 4D would be more than high enough....

2D.....2S.....4D.....5D
P.......5S.....All pass

[ArtK78]

For those that wind up in 5♦ before South has a chance to act, what do you think of South finding a double?

It would certainly work well on this hand, and I don't think it is outrageous.

(Double dummy, it is even right to double 4♦, but I don't believe anyone would find that)

[blackshoe]

When I first saw this hand, my thought was that it might (should?) go 2♦-X-5♦-? I don't think S should X on this auction, but I'm not really sure what he should do.

Maybe 2♠ is better than X, but suppose they don't have a spade fit, or a better heart or club fit? Isn't X the more flexible call here?

[helene_t]

mohitz, on Nov 20 2009, 12:58 PM, said:

2D - 2S - 5D - 5S all pass

Looks OK. Miguelm's auction is fine, too.

[Jlall]

blackshoe, on Nov 20 2009, 11:26 AM, said:

When I first saw this hand, my thought was that it might (should?) go 2♦-X-5♦-? I don't think S should X on this auction, but I'm not really sure what he should do.

Maybe 2♠ is better than X, but suppose they don't have a spade fit, or a better heart or club fit? Isn't X the more flexible call here?

I definitely think south would X if it went 2D X 5D at these colors. Also think 5D is insane at these colors heh.

[pooltuna]

Jlall, on Nov 20 2009, 12:03 PM, said:

blackshoe, on Nov 20 2009, 11:26 AM, said:

When I first saw this hand, my thought was that it might (should?) go 2♦-X-5♦-? I don't think S should X on this auction, but I'm not really sure what he should do.

Maybe 2♠ is better than X, but suppose they don't have a spade fit, or a better heart or club fit? Isn't X the more flexible call here?

I definitely think south would X if it went 2D X 5D at these colors. Also think 5D is insane at these colors heh.

so 5♦ less 300=sanity?

2♦ 2♠ 3♦ 4♦ ;2♠ is marginal but necessary w/short ♦
P 4♥ P 5♣ ;4♥ is a courtesy Q
P 5♠ P P ; 5♠ = you'll have to drag me any further while I kick and scream
P

[gnasher]

ArtK78, on Nov 20 2009, 04:42 PM, said:

For those that wind up in 5♦ before South has a chance to act, what do you think of South finding a double?

It would certainly work well on this hand, and I don't think it is outrageous.

(Double dummy, it is even right to double 4♦, but I don't believe anyone would find that)

Isn't
  (2♦) dbl (4♦) dbl
usually played as responsive? If you're not going to drive slam with the South hand, a responsive double seems a good choice. If partner leaves it in you expect 800 or so; if he bids 4M you're at least as well-placed as if you'd bid 5♦.

On the actual hand North will bid 4♠ in reply to the double. Then you might bid 5♦-5♥-5♠-pass.

[mikeh]

gnasher, on Nov 20 2009, 12:33 PM, said:

ArtK78, on Nov 20 2009, 04:42 PM, said:

For those that wind up in 5♦ before South has a chance to act, what do you think of South finding a double?

It would certainly work well on this hand, and I don't think it is outrageous.

(Double dummy, it is even right to double 4♦, but I don't believe anyone would find that)

Isn't
  (2♦) dbl (4♦) dbl
usually played as responsive? If you're not going to drive slam with the South hand, a responsive double seems a good choice. If partner leaves it in you expect 800 or so; if he bids 4M you're at least as well-placed as if you'd bid 5♦.

On the actual hand North will bid 4♠ in reply to the double. Then you might bid 5♦-5♥-5♠-pass.

I think the auctions beginning with the responsive double are problematic. That doesn't make the double a poor choice...indeed, it would be my choice because I would expect 5-level safety in hearts and have a relatively safe keycard over 4♥....hopong to avoid a club loser either by pitching on spades or by finding partner with the Q.

But the unexpected spade response is bad news, precisely because I can no longer bring the heart suit into focus. Clearly, keycard is inadequate, and slam could be laydown opposite many routine doubles.... Qxxxx AKQx x Qxx as one example....Qxxx AKx x QJxxx as another, so it seems cowardly to pass 4♠.

If one is advancing, then 5♣ is out...it is natural... showing 4 hearts and longer clubs....you were aiming at 4♥ and are now bailing to clubs once partner disappoints.

Thus 5♦ is foisted (as Ira Rubin would say) upon us.

We hear the best possible news.... 5♥. We are sitting with magnificent spades, the diamond control we have implied, and not merely first but also 2nd round control of clubs. Is there not a risk that partner will take this sequence as inviting slam IF HE HAS A CLUB CONTROL? Thus, on the actual hand, maybe he pictures AKJx QJxxx Ax xx. Would we bid any differently if we held that hand rather than the posted one?

On the actual hand, he'd pass 5♠ anyway, and we'd be in the best spot, but I'm uncomfortable with auctions that reach the right spot without it being clear that the partnership knew what it was doing.

I don't have an answer, btw This isn't a criticism of the auction, in the sense of 'this is wrong, here's a better way'. And maybe I'm wrong, and it is best to play this under-pressure sequence as a generic slam try....in essence asking opener to 'do the right thing'. However, if it were....are we going to get to slam opposite Qxxxx AKQx x Qxx, or 109xxx AKQx x QJx?

Maybe all this means is that after the unexpected 4♠ response, we have to mentally flip a coin and either pass or drive to slam. I just don't see getting there, under control, by cue-bidding.

Good problem.

[gnasher]

If partner has 5-4 in the majors and I make a responsive double, I think he should bid 4♥, to cater for something like a 2425 shape.

That doesn't necessarily make the responsive double work better with this hand: a 4♥ reply will tell us that we have a heart fit, but we still don't know whether we have a slam, and if so in which suit. Maybe the main upside of double is the hope of a 500 penalty.