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Double Fit

#1 User is offline   Echognome 

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Posted 2009-November-16, 15:05

Scoring: IMP

1♣ - 1♥;
2♥ - 2♠*;
?

*Natural game try, can be 4-4 in majors as your 2♥ call only promised 3


1. Do you open the hand playing 2/1?
2. Despite your viewpoint on question 1, here you are. What's your call now?
3. What do you think 2NT, 3♣, and 3♦ should show?
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#2 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2009-November-16, 15:07

I would open it, and I'd bid game now.
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#3 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2009-November-16, 15:13

1) no
2)3H
3) a)lack of 4th heart..b)retry showing where I live c)2 4 3 4, good diamonds-retry.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#4 User is offline   Echognome 

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Posted 2009-November-16, 15:50

Jlall, on Nov 16 2009, 01:07 PM, said:

I would open it, and I'd bid game now.

Just to clarify what may be obvious, but you prefer the game in hearts to spades?
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#5 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2009-November-16, 15:56

Echognome, on Nov 16 2009, 04:50 PM, said:

Jlall, on Nov 16 2009, 01:07 PM, said:

I would open it, and I'd bid game now.

Just to clarify what may be obvious, but you prefer the game in hearts to spades?

yes
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#6 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2009-November-16, 16:08

#1 No
#2 show the spade fit, without promising more than I have, I would go with 3S
#3 2NT should show the weak NT, which is still possible, but without 4 spades,
3C 5-4, NF
3D FSF, GF
3S inv.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#7 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-November-16, 17:08

I'd open it, but only because I expect to be bidding my two best suits.

I wouldn't bid game - I'd just bid 3♥. I have a minimum with only three of my HCP in partner's suits. Weak length opposite length just means lots of losers. Give partner KJxx A10xx Kxx xx and game is pretty poor.

2NT is natural, eg 1345 or 2335 (if that's allowed).

3♣ is natural and to play, suggesting x3x6

3♦ is what you do with a good hand, no primary fit, and doubt about strain - a slightly unusual instance of Fourth-Suit Forcing.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#8 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-November-16, 17:21

agree with Uwe
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#9 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2009-November-16, 17:42

with 4sp and only 3H, opener would rebid 1S, not 2H...prepared in case something like this comes up. (1C-1H-1S-3S-P, if holding a minimum 43 in majors)
When 2S is a natural game try on the given auction, 3S would commit us to game. Partner might be slamming. the only outright decline of game with 4 card heart support is 3H.
It is strange that there is disagreement on whether the hand should even be opened. Yet, 4H in response to a game try is considered. did the hand grow during the auction? no.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#10 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-November-16, 18:36

aguahombre, on Nov 17 2009, 12:42 AM, said:

with 4sp and only 3H, opener would rebid 1S, not 2H...prepared in case something like this comes up.

That might be what you would do, but we don't all bid the same way. Many partnerships play that opener raises to 2♥ with a 4315 minimum.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#11 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2009-November-16, 18:43

I guess i am just old, and would rather have 8 trumps instead of seven if pard is in the normal response range.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#12 User is offline   MarkDean 

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Posted 2009-November-17, 00:21

1. No, not particularly close for me.
2. 3H
3. What gnasher said.
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#13 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2009-November-17, 03:44

1. yes sure
2. depends on method, if I have a: I do not know whether we belong in game bid but maybe we do bid avaiable (2NT 3 Club/diamond) I would use it. Without this I would stay low. I hate my honor location.
3. I have no idea, because I play a very different system.
Kind Regards

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#14 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2009-November-17, 07:35

I open because it's NV and I have 44 in the majors.
2, 3) I agree with gnasher.
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#15 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2009-November-17, 07:57

1) Open always
2) 4♥
3) Natural with only 3 hearts.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#16 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2009-November-17, 08:33

1) Not a big 2/1er but my gut reaction is most won't[in some cases violently opposed]. I probably wouldn't open it in SAYC
2) 3♥
3) 2NT denies 4♥ first and foremost, 3♣ probably means I would accept but my help is in a good ♣ suit, 3♦ says I have control help in ♦
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#17 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-November-17, 08:40

I would open it, but its not that great a hand. In my partnerships, 2♠ promises 5♥. When Gnome gave this hand to me Sunday night, my feeling was spades could possibly be a better trump fit if partner had something like QJxx where we might get a spade ruff in 4♥ but not v.v..

Knowing we have at least an eight card fit should allow a counter-try of 3♣ which is where I live. If pard has 451(xxx), he'll get turned off, but should bid game with 4531 or a hand with the ♣K.
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