[bridgeboy]

Scoring: IMP

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The bidding goes:

RHO You LHO P
1S X 2S P
P ?

[luke warm]

probably wrong, but i voted 2nt... if i x again pard's gonna bid hearts, then what do i do? i almost bid 3nt, but that's probably worse

[bearmum]

I voted for 3♦ (strong hand♦ suit) but I am guessing that those who voted 2NT were using that bid for the minors?

[the hog]

No they were definitely not! On the expected S lead, you have 8 tricks. They are hoping for their partner to be able to find the, highly unlikely, raise to 3. Even on a H lead you can expect the A of S to be right and there is detritus to be gotten rid of while the opps cash a few H tricks.

The problem with this understandable but misguided line of reasoning is that partner is unlikely to find the raise. imho you have two bids only - 3D and 3NT. Note that both 2NT and 3D are highly likely to end the auction. By bidding 2NT you are contracting to make exactly 8 tricks - if you think partner will raise, you are living in Cloud Cuckoo Land. Playing Imps 3N is a stand out, playing MPs 3D is probably best, but even that cannot be underwritten by Lloyds of London. I don't really expect to make 3N, as I am playing pd for J9xx of H and Q of C, but at Imps the chances of a vul game must be taken.

[1eyedjack]

Whenever I bid NT on these hands they go and lead Hearts at me, then Spades through my King. ♠9 could end up useful, mind.

But I worry about why partner has not bid Hearts. In my methods he can show weakness in the process, and if I had 5 Hearts opposite a double of 1♠ it would take a lot to shut me up.

I think that partner is more likely to read me for some sort of Heart tolerance if I bid NT than if I describe my hand as a strong jump in ♦. We may need a double Spade guard to make 3N if we don't have 9 in tops, and if partner has something in Spades and enough to bid then he could either try 3♠ or 3N.

I voted 3♦ but my second choice is to blast 3N and hope for the best.

[mr1303]

Can I have the original double back? I think thats a terrible bid with the stiff heart.

I'm going for 2NT on the first round. I know I'm only 5-4, but I think that the alternatives are worse

[inquiry]

I don't like the initial double. But the question is what to do when I sub-into a tournment and this is the place where the bidding is now. Here I will bid 3♦.

1) 2NT is NOT for the minors now. If I was interested in minors I would have started with 2NT initially.

2) Dbl here would be still for takeout. Thankfully, it is not a choice in the poll, the first double was wrong (imho), but a second double (also for takeout) with a a stiff ♥ would be suicidal.

Since 2NT shows "balanced" hand (ignoring for a minute the ♥ shortage, that bid is not so bad. If they lead a ♠ 8 tricks are sure, and a ninth can materialize if partner has the ♣Q. However, on a ♥ lead and ♠ shift, they are very likely to win 5♠ and 2 to 4 ♥'s. So I am not bidding 2NT. If I want to go that way, I could just close my eyes and try the effect of a direct 3NT, but I don't do that for the same reason.

So this leaves two choices. 3♦ and pass. I have a feeling that pass is probalby right. Why? I only have 7 tricks in my hand without a ♠ lead, and I find it hard to believe partner will provide two tricks in top winners. Also, over 3♦, partner may find that he does hold a few ♥'s after all and take a "preference" back to 3♥. However, I will go ahead and bid 3♦ here, as North having four clubs to the Queen would give me the all the tricks I need, and maybe I can manage a ♠ ruff in dummy or partner will have a four clubs or more, for down only one. 3♦ is also "safe" in that it is unlikely to get doubled, due to the quality of my ♦.

Ben

[Trpltrbl]

I bid 3 NT, I have really no good bid. So I might as well try for game since looks like I have 8 tricks. X, is not a great bid, but again you are kinda stuck.

Mike

[EarlPurple]

I bid 3♦. I play equal-level conversion, so I may originally have had

xx KQxx AQJxx Kx

However if I had that hand I would make another double on this auction.

If partner cannot bid on over 3♦ perhaps we can't make anything.

[Trpltrbl]

EarlPurple, on Jun 29 2004, 05:58 PM, said:

I bid 3♦. I play equal-level conversion, so I may originally have had

xx KQxx AQJxx Kx

However if I had that hand I would make another double on this auction.

If partner cannot bid on over 3♦ perhaps we can't make anything.

If you can't make 3♦ you can't make 3NT, most of the time.
So why settle for 3♦and not try 3 NT, since you need amount of tricks, and pd is not going to bid 3 NT holding ♥ J10xx and ♣ Qx

[the hog]

"Since 2NT shows "balanced" hand (ignoring for a minute the ♥ shortage, that bid is not so bad. If they lead a ♠ 8 tricks are sure, and a ninth can materialize if partner has the ♣Q. However, on a ♥ lead and ♠ shift, they are very likely to win 5♠ and 2 to 4 ♥'s. So I am not bidding 2NT."

Ben, though there is no guarantee of course, the SA is very likely to be with rho who opened the bidding, Thus I don't think they will take 5S and 2-4H. They certainly might take 4H, maybe 5, and 1S, but this is a risk I would be prepared to take.

Quick question to those who hate the initial X. It's not great, but is there really an alternative? This is an awfully heavy 2D overcall on this 20 count, and your K of S is well placed. If you bid 2D on hands of this strength, I think that is too much.

Ron

[Free]

I also don't like the dbl, but if I drew it on purpose, I'll have to deal with it now. I go for 2NT, not as minor showing, but as strong NT. If p has some trick, he'll bid 3NT. Btw, 2♠ is probably very weak, so 3NT might well be the best contract. Bidding ♦ here would show a long singlesuited hand, which I don't have.

[Chamaco]

I would double a second time (for takeout).
If pard bids heart, I bid 3NT, if he bids a minor, I raise to 5.
Pard's penalty pass is unlikely given my Kxx and opps raising each other.

[flytoox]

Chamaco, on Jun 30 2004, 10:40 AM, said:

I would double a second time (for takeout).
If pard bids heart, I bid 3NT, if he bids a minor, I raise to 5.
Pard's penalty pass is unlikely given my Kxx and opps raising each other.

the problem is that pd may bid 4H after ur 2nd dbl, what will u do then? 4N? pass?

hongjun

[bridgeboy]

Thanks all for replying
I guess, from the results, it is close between 3D and a more practical 3NT. It is also interesting to see what 2NT means, some play it as minors. We play it as natural here though.

I would like to know if you guys play 2NT as strictly points (19-22 HCP) or 8 playing tricks (need not be balanced) or both.

At the table, 3D would be the more successful bid although I don't think you will be in game

The full hands:

Scoring: IMP

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[Gerben47]

3♦ is clear for me. If partner is strong enough to volunteer 3♠ I will take the bait. A second double is wrong because you KNOW partner will bid 3♥ now.

A question for those that say "I don't like double": Well, what do you suggest? 2♦ with 20 HCP is too much IMHO. 2NT for the minors? Yuck!
You are prepared for every auction. If partner voluntarily bids 3♥ at some point you can bid 3NT.

[Flame]

Yes you wont be in game, but you also dont want to be in game since 5D is a bad contract.

[pclayton]

Sorry, late on the scene here.

I voted for 2N; natural of course. If you had the minors and a moose, direct 2N is the call, perhaps even with a 5-4. The potential for 3N is too great on this hand, so I'm OK with a double here with a SAYC pard.

In my partnerships, we play most of a system called Overcall Structure, so a double and direct 2N have totally different meanings. Here's a link for the unenlightened masses:

http://www.gg.caltec...em/foutnote.txt

If you pose this hand as a problem over a direct 3♠, I'm sure all of you would trot out 3N. And pard holding just about any weak hand with less than 6 ♥'s should quietly sit.

Phil