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Pass, 2D to show support, X to show spades...what's your choice?
Competitive Bidding How to approach this weak hand?
#1
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Posted 2009-November-14, 23:04
Pass, 2D to show support, X to show spades...what's your choice?
#2
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Posted 2009-November-14, 23:26
Pass
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
#3
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Posted 2009-November-14, 23:34
I forgot to include this...
If you pass, suppose you have an extra point...what would you bid then? And does it matter if it's an extra point in spades (KQTx) or diamonds (J754)?
If you pass, suppose you have an extra point...what would you bid then? And does it matter if it's an extra point in spades (KQTx) or diamonds (J754)?
#4
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Posted 2009-November-14, 23:46
Even with an extra point, I think this hand is very weak. 4342 , the ♥J is worthless and the spade honors are not solid. If partner bids spades next I will reluctantly raise ♠'s but I really dont have much hope for this hand.
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
#5
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Posted 2009-November-15, 01:19
2D
#6
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Posted 2009-November-15, 03:00
3D
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#7
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Posted 2009-November-15, 15:36
2D, we have a 9 card fit, I show the fit.
With kind regards
Marlowe
PS: If p has a 4 card spade suit, and if he is willing to compete
to at least 3D, than he should, if still possible, bid 2S, i.e my raise
does not deny 4 spades.
With kind regards
Marlowe
PS: If p has a 4 card spade suit, and if he is willing to compete
to at least 3D, than he should, if still possible, bid 2S, i.e my raise
does not deny 4 spades.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#8
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Posted 2009-November-15, 15:39
jillybean, on Nov 15 2009, 12:46 AM, said:
Even with an extra point, I think this hand is very weak. 4342 , the ♥J is worthless and the spade honors are not solid. If partner bids spades next I will reluctantly raise ♠'s but I really dont have much hope for this hand.
If p bids spade on his own, you should not raise reluctantly,
you have a p, who bids without knowing, that you are sort of
a live, and you see a double fit.
Ps free bid and the double fit is enough to compete to the 3 level,
espesially, if you pass now, becuase this pass limits your hands
very tightly.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#9
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Posted 2009-November-15, 15:43
2♦, wouldn't show spades. It really does help to have the vul in these problems since 3♦ is at least an option.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#10
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Posted 2009-November-15, 16:20
3♦.
This hand has 4 card support so I would never pass.
With 4 small spades I would always raise diamonds, with a stronger hand I would always show spades. With this hand I would like to show spades, but the hand is not strong enough to bid spades then support diamonds. The downside of 3♦ is that if we have a spade fit it is probably lost now.
This hand has 4 card support so I would never pass.
With 4 small spades I would always raise diamonds, with a stronger hand I would always show spades. With this hand I would like to show spades, but the hand is not strong enough to bid spades then support diamonds. The downside of 3♦ is that if we have a spade fit it is probably lost now.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
#11
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Posted 2009-November-15, 16:34
Um, 3D? Get to where you are willing to play as soon as is humanly possible.
I ♦ Transfers
#12
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Posted 2009-November-15, 20:37
bd71, on Nov 15 2009, 12:04 AM, said:
P (1C) 1D (1H)
?
?
Pass, 2D to show support, X to show spades...what's your choice?
2♦
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
#13
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Posted 2009-November-16, 03:18
2♦ - support with support. 3♦ too much with nothing in diamonds and a pretty flat hand.
Ming
--Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else.
--Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else.
#14
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Posted 2009-November-16, 07:39
Agree with Quantumcat, at least if nonvul.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
#15
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Posted 2009-November-16, 08:01
Form of scoring and vulnerability...
I really want to show spades. The downsides are obvious and have been stated. The wildly important upsides, though, keep nagging at me:
1. If partner has spade support, I am not upset with my meager strength -- double fits play well.
2. I really don't want to encourage a dangerous diamond lead.
3. I really do want to encourage a spade lead
Still not sure what I want to do here. The unknown vulnerability and scoring make a difference.
There is also another factor, FWIW. If I show spades, I bury the great diamond fit and suggest greater strength than I actually have. That's a negative. But, it has some mitigation in that the opponents also will lack this info and will be somewhat in the dark.
I really want to show spades. The downsides are obvious and have been stated. The wildly important upsides, though, keep nagging at me:
1. If partner has spade support, I am not upset with my meager strength -- double fits play well.
2. I really don't want to encourage a dangerous diamond lead.
3. I really do want to encourage a spade lead
Still not sure what I want to do here. The unknown vulnerability and scoring make a difference.
There is also another factor, FWIW. If I show spades, I bury the great diamond fit and suggest greater strength than I actually have. That's a negative. But, it has some mitigation in that the opponents also will lack this info and will be somewhat in the dark.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."
-P.J. Painter.
-P.J. Painter.
#16
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Posted 2009-November-16, 08:02
Probably 3♦. Red, given my awful shape, I might sometimes only bid 2♦ I guess.
Still decidedly intermediate - don't take my guesses as authoritative.
"gwnn" said:
rule number 1 in efficient forum reading:
hanp does not always mean literally what he writes.
hanp does not always mean literally what he writes.
#17
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Posted 2009-November-16, 08:43
Quantumcat, on Nov 15 2009, 05:34 PM, said:
Um, 3D? Get to where you are willing to play as soon as is humanly possible.
3D is just overdoing it.
3 hearts, spades badly placed spades - the 1H response usually denies
5-4 in the major, ... well, not always, but assuming this, spades will be
more often with opener, who is sitting behind you.
And than - preemption is good, but from a certain level onward,
they just can take the money and go home, without a lot of trouble.
And they dont have a lot of issue finding the axt, X after 3D is for most
optional, just showing cards, and both can make it, stay low on this one,
leave it to p, who is still on the table.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#18
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Posted 2009-November-16, 20:19
vuroth, on Nov 16 2009, 08:02 AM, said:
Probably 3♦. Red, given my awful shape, I might sometimes only bid 2♦ I guess.
We agree. Our side holds at least 9♦ and our hand looks preemptive. I will forget about ♠ and put more pressure on the opps.
#19
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Posted 2009-December-08, 04:27
Double
Snapdragon.
Not that I think it's clear or even right. Just surprised that nobody suggested it.
Snapdragon.
Not that I think it's clear or even right. Just surprised that nobody suggested it.
#20
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Posted 2009-December-08, 05:22
Maybe nobody suggested Snapdragon, because this would show 2 card fit and 5 card in the unbid suit? A nice tool if you have that kind of hand. But we don`t have it.
I would bid 2 diamond. For 3 Diamond, I would need shape, not just 4 trumps.
But please continue to bid 3 Diamond with these hands to put the pressure on me and my partner. We love this kind of pressure.
I would bid 2 diamond. For 3 Diamond, I would need shape, not just 4 trumps.
But please continue to bid 3 Diamond with these hands to put the pressure on me and my partner. We love this kind of pressure.
Kind Regards
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
?