[jahol]

In Bridgebase Main club, I got this hand:

AKQJ98xxxx-10-x-x.

My RHO opened 1H. What would real expert bid when nonvulnerable/nonvulnerable?

Jahol

[mishovnbg]

3♥ asking for stopper with solid suit followed by 4NT BW if it is available, else reached level ♠, doesn't matter how high.
Misho

[1eyedjack]

I have seen players just start off with a 1♠ overcall, gamble on it not being passed out, then following up with 2♠ (same gamble) and so ad infinitum until doubled.

I don't think that works any more against good opponents. By the time you have bid them about 4 times the opps smell a rat :-)

[Fluffy]

Tactical bids incoming, anything may work, and anything may fail.

For example a popular choice with such deals is to pass, then you will have some extra info on next round, and maybe your opponents will double you. There are 2 problems involved to pass: you help opponents to find a fit at safe level, and partner may bid 4NT after 4♥.

I like to show more than to hide, I like Misho´s aproach, althou I think I play that only a long minor (at least at IMPS), but on this deal it won´t matter much what he thinks , if partner has no ace we will go down, but I bet they are winning 5/6 of something then. And also 3♥ gets rid of enoug space to create pressure on opps.

[csdenmark]

Thank you Jahol - now I think we know how to handle the day this hand soon will be dealt to us. - Maybe we spare time not playing the hand as we now know as well distribution and actions.

[Free]

I don't care about frequency of this hand, I'll just Dbl and bid 4♠ afterwards, should show my hand, and I only need Aces!

[jahol]

Yes, csdenmark, you are right. With high probability, you will be NEVER confronted with some hand like that described in my contribution. I am very, very sorry, I took so much of your time....

Similarly, you will be NEVER confronted with many and many other unique problems, such nice game as bridge can bring (some of them described in Bridgebase fora). You will never meet spectacular hands commented in Zias books, as well - for example. I am very sorry, that also all these people took your time ... with something, what finally appeared so unsignificant for you....

Of course, I have not had any right to write such stupid contribution about something like hand with 10 spades in it. Please, just try to understand one very small reason, I might have....

This hand was played at bridgebase couple of days ago. About fifteen players had to solve my problem and NOBODY bid the way, I did. I was so eager to see, whether I can find some, at least ONE, fellow, who will think the same way as me... Can you understand at least a bit this reason....?

What was my bid? FIVE spades.....

jahol

[Fluffy]

I my friend, I plauyed a hand similar of this one in BB few days ago, but with 9 spades and something else I think, I had to open 1♠ and when it came 2♣-p-2♥ I was the one to bid 5♠ that time. But I don´t agree with your bid in here, by bidding 5♠ your partner will be blind of hoe to act with 0/1/2 or 3 aces.

On the other side, the reason we post hands that won´t be ever dealt again is that every problem is composed of many little structures that compose the rpoblem, ,and althioug the same problem is never faced again, the small peices do, and start to become familiar after playing 20 years.

[csdenmark]

jahol, on May 30 2004, 11:08 PM, said:

Yes, csdenmark, you are right. With high probability, you will be NEVER confronted with some hand like that described in my contribution. I am very, very sorry, I took so much of your time....

Similarly, you will be NEVER confronted with many and many other unique problems, such nice game as bridge can bring (some of them described in Bridgebase fora). You will never meet spectacular hands commented in Zias books, as well - for example. I am very sorry, that also all these people took your time ... with something, what finally appeared so unsignificant for you....

Of course, I have not had any right to write such stupid contribution about something like hand with 10 spades in it. Please, just try to understand one very small reason, I might have....

This hand was played at bridgebase couple of days ago. About fifteen players had to solve my problem and NOBODY bid the way, I did. I was so eager to see, whether I can find some, at least ONE, fellow, who will think the same way as me... Can you understand at least a bit this reason....?

What was my bid? FIVE spades..... 

                jahol

I think it is quite OK to put such hands up after a week or so. I read your post as it was yesterday - and then it is not correct. I dont know how many times a deal is made - I know on ZONE each deal come up 24 times.

[the hog]

Jahol,

Typically an opening bid of 5 of a major shows 11 tricks in a hand missing the top honors, something like:
QJT9xxxx AKQ AK void
or similar to this.
{5 minor is different of course}.

Basically you are asking partner to look at the S suit in isolation to the rest of the hand and to raise 1 level for every honour held in the S suit. (Not that you are likely to get hands like that every day of the week).

Freak hands are always difficult to bid. Australian expert Ron Klinger plays a convention specifically designed to deal with such problems. He has forgone the gambling 3N opening, (a questionable bid anyway), to play that 3N is a specific Ace ask. This would work superbly on the given hand. I don't play this, so I would just open the hand 4NT ace ask. If partner has no Aces, the chances are that the opps may well have made something and I have pre empted them out of the bidding anyway.

Cheers
Ron

Whoops sorry, misread your post - thought you had this in the opening position! OK after a 1H opening I like Misho's approach.

[1eyedjack]

csdenmark, on May 30 2004, 05:37 PM, said:

I think it is quite OK to put such hands up after a week or so. I read your post as it was yesterday - and then it is not correct. I dont know how many times a deal is made - I know on ZONE each deal come up 24 times.

I am intrigued to know: how can you tell whether someone has posted a hand in the forum prior to its having completed the round in BBO?

[Trpltrbl]

Many things can work, and also might not work.
Depending on my pd and tablefeel, I might opt for either 3♥(asking for stopper), 5♠ or Pass.
It really depends on too much stuff, I might make a different bid each time I get similair hand.

Mike

[csdenmark]

1eyedjack, on May 31 2004, 01:39 AM, said:

I am intrigued to know: how can you tell whether someone has posted a hand in the forum prior to its having completed the round in BBO?

I have no idea Jack - but I think it is of very much importance. I wonder why all the people here are so keen discussing an obvious bid instead of concentrating on what is of importance.

I think it is of importance to know how many times a deal is loaded. I have noticed when I play a new deal - it is played by 10 other tables within an hour.

I think it is right to have a right to discuss interesting hands hands here but I also think it is right to wait until we are sure/near sure that all who will be playing the hand has completed.

[whereagles]

The "scientific" way to bid this hand is to bid 3 :h:, followed by 4NT.

But this is a hand fit for tactical bidding. Choose your favourite bluff and use it

[1eyedjack]

csdenmark, on May 30 2004, 05:37 PM, said:

jahol, on May 30 2004, 11:08 PM, said:

Yes, csdenmark, you are right. With high probability, you will be NEVER confronted with some hand like that described in my contribution. I am very, very sorry, I took so much of your time....

Similarly, you will be NEVER confronted with many and many other unique problems, such nice game as bridge can bring (some of them described in Bridgebase fora). You will never meet spectacular hands commented in Zias books, as well - for example. I am very sorry, that also all these people took your time ... with something, what finally appeared so unsignificant for you....

Of course, I have not had any right to write such stupid contribution about something like hand with 10 spades in it. Please, just try to understand one very small reason, I might have....

This hand was played at bridgebase couple of days ago. About fifteen players had to solve my problem and NOBODY bid the way, I did. I was so eager to see, whether I can find some, at least ONE, fellow, who will think the same way as me... Can you understand at least a bit this reason....?

What was my bid? FIVE spades..... 

                jahol

I think it is quite OK to put such hands up after a week or so. I read your post as it was yesterday - and then it is not correct. I dont know how many times a deal is made - I know on ZONE each deal come up 24 times.

It looks to me like the hands in the main playing area are generally played 16 times. I would be quite surprised if any hand is still in play more than 2 hours after it is first played. Another question of possible relevance is how many movements are there in play at once.

In other words, I suspect that the coin will land on its proverbial edge before I happen across a hand published in the forum, and then play in the main area whilst that hand is still being dealt, and then be dealt that hand.

I guess it could happen.

[csdenmark]

1eyedjack, on May 31 2004, 11:42 AM, said:

It looks to me like the hands in the main playing area are generally played 16 times.  I would be quite surprised if any hand is still in play more than 2 hours after it is first played.  Another question of possible relevance is how many movements are there in play at once.

In other words, I suspect that the coin will land on its proverbial edge before I happen across a hand published in the forum, and then play in the main area whilst that hand is still being dealt, and then be dealt that hand.

I guess it could happen.

If you are right about 16 times or 2 hours Jack my blame of Jahol was not right. It would be interesting to know how it really works.

[1eyedjack]

csdenmark, on May 31 2004, 06:49 AM, said:

If you are right about 16 times or 2 hours Jack my blame of Jahol was not right. It would be interesting to know how it really works.

I think it would be more of an issue if playing Matchpoints in the main area ... it is a much less popular format and so I suspect that it takes longer for the movement to complete.

There have been several times I have played matchpoints and keep finding that there is no comparative on the traveller. This indicates a much longer "half-life".

[EarlPurple]

Misho's approach is great. I bid 3♥, partner bids 3NT to show a heart stop and I continue with 4NT. So partner has no x KQxx QJxx KJxx, they can't make anything and I am going one off in 5♠.

There's a lot to be said for a simple 4♠ pre-empt. Yes, you might miss a slam, but the opponents can exchange a lot less information, and maybe even one of them will gamble to bid on when it's wrong.

At IMPs you don't gain all that much by getting doubled. 5 imps, assuming there are no overtricks. But you have a lot to lose if the opps judge correctly.

[Trpltrbl]

EarlPurple, on May 31 2004, 09:05 AM, said:

There's a lot to be said for a simple 4♠ pre-empt. Yes, you might miss a slam, but the opponents can exchange a lot less information, and maybe even one of them will gamble to bid on when it's wrong.

At IMPs you don't gain all that much by getting doubled. 5 imps, assuming there are no overtricks. But you have a lot to lose if the opps judge correctly.

I don't think a 4♠ preempt is going to do the job for you. If you think this is a preempt, at least preempt at 5 level then, possibly even 6 level.
You bidding 4 ♠ ain't stopping nobody, expect pd.

Mike

[flytoox]

mishovnbg, on May 30 2004, 09:29 AM, said:

3♥ asking for stopper with solid suit followed by 4NT BW if it is available, else reached level ♠, doesn't matter how high.
Misho

are u sure, misho? pd will respond 3N with the heart king. if u bid 4N then and pd has no ace, u r down for sure.