[ArcLight]

In the 2/1 sysme notes from Mike Lawrences CD on 2/1 and his books, 3♦ would be an Intermediate Jump shift.

I dont think you need the SJS over a major opening, just make a 2/1.
Its over the minor suit opening that its needed.

[jdonn]

Ken does opener ever not make the cheapest rebid in your example auctions? I think I've finally come around. If opener always makes the cheapest rebid, and responder always supports opener, your system is amazing!

[kenrexford]

jdonn, on Nov 4 2009, 11:45 AM, said:

Ken does opener ever not make the cheapest rebid in your example auctions? I think I've finally come around. If opener always makes the cheapest rebid, and responder always supports opener, your system is amazing!

Josh, as you might notice, I also commented on when Opener does not make the cheapest rebid. I noted, however, that the stiff heart makes it very likely that he does.

That said, again, if Opener bids anything else other than the likely 2H, I am still happy with a 2D response. I just sets trumps at 3S and hear something actually useful.

The point is to predict the odds-on call from partner. If I bid 2D, the odds seems to strongly favor a 2H rebid, which is great. If I start 2NT, the odds seems to favor a 3D response, which is useless. So, I go for the one that screams best case, especially if the unexpected is not a problem either.

[vuroth]

re: 2NT

Is there an expert feel here that the spade slam is always going to be better than the diamond slam? Granted, we're likely to end up in spades, and I certainly get Justin's point about using 2NT to take control of the auction, but this IS IMPs. Once in a while, diamonds is going to be the best place to be, right?

V

[rduran1216]

Assuming you play 2/1, you dont need SJS.

you expect the auction to look like this in 2/1

1S 2D
2H 2S
4S 4NT...

or

1S 2D
2S 3S
4S 4NT...

you are headed for slam anyway. The reason I'd opt for 2/1 and not some special bid in this spot, is I'm gonna do the slamming with this hand, and any info is good. I don't care that my partner has 1 or 0 diamonds, I want to know if we've got a club fit, or if my partner has the A of hearts to swing this to 6 or 7NT.

I see no need to make a Jacoby 2NT bid, and playing bergen 3D is out of the question for me personally.

[mikeh]

JB: I think Justin's points about j2N on this hand are valid. I wouldn't use the gadget, not because of the 'rule', but because I don't see it as being an adequate solution to our problems. Consider partner with say Kxxxx AQx xx Kxx... we want to be in 7♦ at imps, and 7N at mps, but if we start with J2N, we can probably never play in diamonds.

I don't ever J2N with fewer than 4 cards because, by definition, when I hold 3 card support, I always hold at least one suit in sufficient length that it MAY be an alternate trump suit. Now, I usually play J2N methods that allow for a side 4-4 fit to be discovered, but not for me to discover a side 5-3 or 6-2 fit for MY long side suit.

Playing 2/1 I wouldn't SJS because, paradoxically, the hand is too strong. I need to maximize partner's ability to describe her hand while keeping the level low. While I have safety at the 5-level, on almost all constructions, I am concerned about 6 or 7 and about denomination.

Playing SA, I would jumpshift, because otherwise, on many sequences, I will need to jumpshift later or really misdescribe my hand.

So in 2/1 I'd bid 2♦ and raise spades later and then, if room permits, make slam tries below 4♠ until finally (probably) forced to keycard.

[aguahombre]

Actually, for those who really hate SJS in 2/1, there are two situations where they work well --and these are the only two SJS we use:

1C-2D and
1H-2S

In these two situations, the SJS shows one of only two types of hand:
1) Slammish one-suiter in the bid suit
2) Slammish two-suiter in the bid suit and opener's suit.

This eliminates some otherwise ugly auctions, with a much higher frequency of occurrence than the WJS with the choice, of course, in the weak situation to not bid at all or to stretch a 1/1 and the likelyhood that there will already be intervention in the weak cases.

[Codo]

If you do not play SJS up to now and have no treatments what to do afterwards, do not use SJS at all.
SJS is a tool that works well for hands with 16+ HCPS. But you do not hold this hand often and somehow it is allways possible to show strong hands.

Which of Gnomes suggestions you use is your and yours partners personal choice. Mine is Minisplinter, my standard partner prefers Bergen, a lot use interm. jumps. Taste differs.

Without any discussion about this bid, I would simply not use it. It must be a horrible experience to play 3 Diamond + 4 because your partner took your SJS as intermed. jump or to play 3 Diamond -4 because your partner took your minisplinter as weak jump...

[the hog]

maggieb, on Nov 4 2009, 06:03 AM, said:

I'd start with Jacoby 2N. We're going to want to end up bidding blackwood for spades anyway, but this way we can find out more about partner's hand before we do that (particularly whether or not he's stiff/void in diamonds).

Blackwood for S? Are you sure? What if partner holds
xxxxx
AK
xx
KQJxx

[Free]

The_Hog, on Nov 5 2009, 11:34 AM, said:

maggieb, on Nov 4 2009, 06:03 AM, said:

I'd start with Jacoby 2N. We're going to want to end up bidding blackwood for spades anyway, but this way we can find out more about partner's hand before we do that (particularly whether or not he's stiff/void in diamonds).

Blackwood for S? Are you sure? What if partner holds
xxxxx
AK
xx
KQJxx

That would be a disaster, 14 cards!

[jillybean]

Thanks all. We are going to play SJS over minors only, play 1M:2m for gf+ minor hands and leave 1M:3m until we need a better use for the bid or Im up to speed with the use and continuations of minor jumps.

Roland, Ive just started using mini splinters by passed hand only. Are you using mini splinter by non passed hand as 9-11, 4card support, shortage as an addition to a regular limit raise which otherwise will be balanced?
I guess a weak jump shift isnt needed in 2/1 since you can get out in 2D/3D.

[Codo]

I love to play splinters as exactly7 losers and min splinters as 8 or 6. Translated to HCPS this is around 9-11 and 15-17. With the first range you accept partners descission to play 3 or 4, with the later you raise 3 to 4 or make a slam try if he jumps to game.
And yes, this shows 4 trumps nearly always. Sometimes you may have 5...

About the intermed. Jump shift: It is not true that it is not needed: Lest say that 2D/3D shows this hand, how do you show a GF hand with diamonds? Of course there are solutions, but you must be aware about them.
Mine is (and I think this is common sense) to bid 2 D/3 S with a power house like your hand (Or 2D/4D with a real one suiter).

[helene_t]

I play the same as Codo. I think it's easy and useful. Minisplinters can be played by a passed hand, too. If you play SJS or IMS you can't have the hand for them as a passed hand so you would have to play some different structure by a passed hand.