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ok, I have extras but...

Poll: what do you bid? (25 member(s) have cast votes)

what do you bid?

  1. pass (4 votes [16.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.00%

  2. double (17 votes [68.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 68.00%

  3. 4NT (3 votes [12.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.00%

  4. 5 clubs (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 5 diamonds (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. 5 hearts (1 votes [4.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.00%

  7. higher (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#21 User is offline   nick_s 

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Posted 2009-October-30, 09:05

Great explanations. Thanks!
Not an expert, just a student of the game
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#22 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-October-30, 09:30

here is an old thread about almost this auction but the red suits reversed:

http://forums.bridge...showtopic=16479

please be kind and disregard my post which says forcing pass might make sense, now I think it does not.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#23 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-October-30, 09:36

Jlall, on Oct 30 2009, 09:55 AM, said:

IMO 2D does not create a forcing pass at a high level.

Right. Contrast this auction to:

1♥ - pass - 2♦ - 4♠
?

LOL: Sher...

This post has been edited by Phil: 2009-October-30, 09:39

Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
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#24 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-October-30, 09:43

Mikeh do you really play 2♥ as gf in a partnership?

1♦-(1♠)-2♥
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#25 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2009-October-30, 11:06

gwnn, on Oct 30 2009, 10:43 AM, said:

Mikeh do you really play 2♥ as gf in a partnership?

1♦-(1♠)-2♥

in one partnership style, yes. Is it my preferred method? No.

how far it is forcing depends on my partnership....in one partnership we played transfer responses after a 1-level overcall, and 2♦ would have been hearts with less than gf, 2♥ would be natural and gf. In another, which I still play in occasionally, 2/1 is on in competition (sure, it causes problems, but it solves them sometimes too) while in my current main partnerships, 2♥ merely promises a rebid should the opps not bid any more.

As for the posted problem: this is not a fp to me, nor, I think, to most. Why? Because 2♦ forced only one round, and the opps have bid beyond the level of our force. I think that this rule is a very, very important rule for fp situations: a fp is forcing ONLY if the auction so far has committed us either to game, expecting to make, or to beyond the level at which they have bid.

On the hand, I would double. This is NOT takeout, anymore than it is PENALTY. it is increasingly common to play lots of doubles as 'I have extras but no convenient descriptive bid'. This can also be described as a 'do something intelligent, partner' double. That is often but not always 'pass'.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#26 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-October-30, 11:14

If I remember correctly, the topic of how much of a force gets created by a 2 level bid in competition is discussed on one of the sample MSC hands on the Bridge World website.

Here it is, third problem.
http://www.bridgeworld.com/default.asp?d=a...er&f=samms.html
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#27 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2009-October-30, 14:46

mikeh, on Oct 30 2009, 12:06 PM, said:

On the hand, I would double. This is NOT takeout, anymore than it is PENALTY. it is increasingly common to play lots of doubles as 'I have extras but no convenient descriptive bid'. This can also be described as a 'do something intelligent, partner' double. That is often but not always 'pass'.

Yes, I agree takeout would be a bad way to describe it. But it is definitely a hand that can handle a take out.
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