[plaur]

Scoring: IMP

p-p-p-1♣
?

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How would you rate a takeout double here(you passed in first hand)?

[jdonn]

I rate it as bad. And I'm usually the one doubling on the 4333 hands when others are passing too.

[Lobowolf]

I think it'd have to improve to get to "bad."

[vuroth]

I might do it with 44 in the majors.
I might do it with 14-16 hcp, and no wasted values in clubs.
I would certainly do it with short clubs (i.e. some distribution).

The green card is underutilized.

[peachy]

I would rate it poor even for a passed hand double - no shape, no shortness, no majors, no tricks, scattered values. Any bad result stemming from it would be 100% my fault and I can imagine they play the hand and "guess" everything right, courtesy of my double. Alternately, we play it in some 4-3 fit and go down, possibly doubled.

[HeavyDluxe]

vuroth, on Oct 28 2009, 11:56 AM, said:

The green card is underutilized.

There's a green card?

re: the OP - I rate a takeout dbl here as bad, too.

[neilkaz]

Lobowolf, on Oct 28 2009, 11:43 AM, said:

I think it'd have to improve to get to "bad."

This is hard to argue with !

[cherdanno]

I would be happy to bet that Meckstroth would double. Ok, impossible bet, he would have opened.
Anyway, I would double.

[jdonn]

Lobowolf, on Oct 28 2009, 11:43 AM, said:

I think it'd have to improve to get to "bad."

Actually I disagree. It's far from awful. I agree with cherdanno, there are in fact a number of experts who would double. Bramley is the std example.

[Jlall]

Playing with myself I would pass. But playing with any normal person I would double all day just to get in there and encourage partner to bid a suit if he can so we can compete. It is not very risky at all and gets your side in cheap. It is very unlikely to even help them play the hand, and in fact is more likely to get them to misplay the hand.

The reason I would pass playing with myself is I rate not to have modest values and a 5 card suit to pass in third seat w/r. Still possible though if my suit was bad.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I would pass.

If you regular make a t/o with 4333 and and 12-14 HCP
as an unpassed hand, assuming you dont have wasted
values in there suit, a style which is playable, than I would
say, why not?

We usually dont make t/o with 4333, but if I would start,
than the given hand would be a perfect candidate.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Phil]

I would pass.

A double doesn't take up any space and if pard has a one level overcall, he might be able to make it. If LHO bids 1N they have advertised no-fit and I do not want to get involved. If we do have a fit and they bid 1N, it represents a source of tricks for us and we might be beating 1N.

If LHO bids 1M and RHO passes, now I'll x.

By the way, I'm the last person to ask about this. I really hate textureless 4333 hands for offense and it seems I have remembered the poor results I've received by bidding and the good results by passing than v.v.. On balance I probably do not compete enough on hands like this.

[andy_h]

w/r I would have opened.

[kenrexford]

jdonn, on Oct 28 2009, 11:35 AM, said:

I rate it as bad. And I'm usually the one doubling on the 4333 hands when others are passing too.

Boy, I thought I had the ugliest avatar.

[kenrexford]

With some partners, 1NT.

[Jlall]

kenrexford, on Oct 28 2009, 06:12 PM, said:

With some partners, 1NT.

OMG GRABBIT!!!!!!!! Brings me back Ken!

[kenrexford]

Jlall, on Oct 28 2009, 10:41 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Oct 28 2009, 06:12 PM, said:

With some partners, 1NT.

OMG GRABBIT!!!!!!!! Brings me back Ken!

Yep -- my wife thinks "grabbit" is a normal convention, just like "stayman" or "drury."

[pooltuna]

plaur, on Oct 28 2009, 11:29 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

p-p-p-1♣
?

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How would you rate a takeout double here(you passed in first hand)?

an obvious Kamakazi X