[kfay]

Scoring: MP

(P)-P-(P)-1♣
(1♠)-?

---

[gwnn]

2s I guess

[Jlall]

I haven't slept at all but my gut reaction was to bid 2C. That seems kind of stupid though...

I guess I'd go with 1N because 2C and 2S both seem to suck!

[pooltuna]

kfay, on Oct 29 2009, 09:03 AM, said:

Scoring: MP

(P)-P-(P)-1♣
(1♠)-?

---

The obvious choices look to be 3♣ and 1NT. Since it is MP I would try 1NT sacrificing game chances for the better partscore opportunity

[hatchett]

Quote

The obvious choices look to be 3♣

3♣ is terrible even if it is a limit raise. Partner could be 4333. If you want to show your hand as a limit raise 2♠ has to be better.

[jdaming]

I like 2♠ I am generally optimistic about my partners 4th seat minor suit opening especially when he doesn't have ♠.

[pooltuna]

hatchett, on Oct 29 2009, 09:45 AM, said:

Quote

The obvious choices look to be 3♣

3♣ is terrible even if it is a limit raise. Partner could be 4333. If you want to show your hand as a limit raise 2♠ has to be better.

I would rather bid 2NT than make a call that should be an invitational NT call if partner has a ♠ stopper when I have at least a semblence of one myself. No 3♣ ain't perfect but your best shot IMO for a game try. BTW the odds of partner not having 4+♣ are under 50% and even with just 3 they don't rate to be xxx and if they are partner is bidding 3NT

[Fluffy]

I must be missing something because this looks like an obvious double.

[kfay]

Fluffy, on Oct 29 2009, 10:52 AM, said:

I must be missing something because this looks like an obvious double.

I must be missing something b/c it sounds like you're not joking.

[andy_h]

1NT (semi underbid) or 2♠ (semi overbid). I go with 2♠. I don't see any other alternative (sorry, really dislike double as I don't have hearts).

[hanp]

I'll make a case for 2S:

We are a passed hand, so partner won't expect more than this 11-count (maybe more clubs though).
Partner opened in fourth seat, the seat where he is most likely to hold real clubs.
There is a good chance that 3NT is better from partner's side, and it is unlikely to be better from our side.
Nobody is vulnerable, if they bid 2S then we'll probably want to compete anyway.

Against all that: When partner is minimal and they don't have a spade fit then we likely missed the best spot (1NT). With these hands partner will probably bid 2NT over 2S which I am planning to pass, hopefully we get even with 1NT.

Double is not a serious options to me, and I think 1NT is clearly better than 2C.

[jdonn]

Isn't not bidding 2♠ simply masterminding? We have club support and an 11 count, and no spade stopper. I must really be missing something. I mean I understand how 1NT could easily work, but anything that's not the right bid can often easily work.

[Jlall]

lol I sent this hand to cherdano and rogerclee on AIM because I figured I'd be alone in the world. It did not look promising when cherdano told me he would bid 2S even with xx Kxx ATxx Qxxx, but clee came through and said 1N is really cleer!

[jdonn]

Well I admit I would bid 2♣ on the cherdanno hand!

[Jlall]

hanp, on Oct 29 2009, 11:53 AM, said:

I'll make a case for 2S:

We are a passed hand, so partner won't expect more than this 11-count (maybe more clubs though).

You're right he won't expect more HCP, but he will expect a different and better hand imo. Bidding 2S on this auction with a balanced hand that has 4 clubs is pretty rare imo. I would always make a neg X if I had 4 hearts, and would bid 2D if I had 5 diamonds and 4 clubs almost always. 3334 or 2344 with no spade stoppers have to bid 2S with 11 but those shapes would generally rather bid 1N if they had a stopper in my opinion unless they were very very sharp (and thus worth a drive to the 2N/3C level). Hands with 4 clubs can't really guarantee a fit or any safety at such a high level.

This 11 is quite soft and looks NTy. It's true we have no spade stopper, but if partner has no spade help then we might do better in 1N than 3C anyways, especially if clubs is just a 4-3 fit. If partner does have a spade stopper I would rather take my chances in 1N than risk 2N or 3N.

You are right we could be wrongsiding though, especially opposite KTx, but there aren't that many combos where we have wrongsided it.

[aguahombre]

Ace and one spade would be another.

[hanp]

jdonn, on Oct 29 2009, 12:35 PM, said:

Well I admit I would bid 2♣ on the cherdanno hand!

Wow yes, that makes 2.

[hanp]

aguahombre, on Oct 29 2009, 12:47 PM, said:

Ace and one spade would be another.

And K10x.

Sometimes AJx or even J9xx, if overcaller has AK108x and out?