[frouu]

Scoring: MP

1NT* - (3♥) - ??


*15-17

---

[weicc]

dbl
where are the spades?
i guess the partner has 4 or 5 of them and our minors fit may not be so great
i wont try to find a 5 level minors game with these cards

[P_Marlowe]

Pass.

I am not even sure, what X would be in this seq., is it for
penalty or for t/o.
Anyway, if my opponents know, what they are doing, they are
prepared to get doubled in 3H, and they will be down at most
-1.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pooltuna]

P_Marlowe, on Oct 26 2009, 09:56 AM, said:

Pass.

I am not even sure, what X would be in this seq., is it for
penalty or for t/o.
Anyway, if my opponents know, what they are doing, they are
prepared to get doubled in 3H, and they will be down at most
-1.

With kind regards
Marlowe

-1=-200 which is the "magic" number in MP you weren't planning on bidding game were you?

[P_Marlowe]

pooltuna, on Oct 26 2009, 10:35 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Oct 26 2009, 09:56 AM, said:

Pass.

I am not even sure, what X would be in this seq., is it for
penalty or for t/o.
Anyway, if my opponents know, what they are doing, they are
prepared to get doubled in 3H, and they will be down at most
-1.

With kind regards
Marlowe

-1=-200 which is the "magic" number in MP you weren't planning on bidding game were you?

ok, I overlooked the fact, that this is MP, but that means
good opponents will have a hand, which will quite often
lead to 3H=

With kind regards
Marlowe

[aguahombre]

double - penalty, unless you like being stolen from by Vul opponents. Lead spade, and get what you get. I would feel very unlucky if they make, but I don't have to bring anything back to our teammates at MP, and partner can live with it.

[Fluffy]

I don't play penalty doubles on this sequence, nor am I sure I'd like to paly them.

pass 3NT adn 4♣ all look reasonable to me. I am passing this time and hope for lucky +200 and no bame our side.

[mike777]

frouu, on Oct 24 2009, 01:26 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

1NT* - (3♥) - ??


*15-17

---

PASS


x=takeout.

[Jlall]

Pass

[peachy]

Many standardish bridge players have agreement that two-level Dbl is penalty and 3-level is takeout, when they overcall on our 1NT. Under these agreements, I pass.

If our agreement is that Dbl on the 3H is penalty, I still pass.

[Cyberyeti]

mike777, on Oct 26 2009, 10:11 PM, said:

frouu, on Oct 24 2009, 01:26 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

1NT* - (3♥) - ??


*15-17

---

PASS


x=takeout.

Seconded, X for t/o is best.

Btw, what's the opinion on 2N-3♥-X, t/o or penalties ?

[Mbodell]

peachy, on Oct 28 2009, 09:44 AM, said:

Many standardish bridge players have agreement that two-level Dbl is penalty and 3-level is takeout, when they overcall on our 1NT. Under these agreements, I pass.

I agree with the above.

Quote

If our agreement is that Dbl on the 3H is penalty, I still pass.

I think the above is crazy talk. If I'm fortunate enough to have a penalty double available, I'll make it happily. We are getting 200 or better the vast majority of the time. I expect 500 much more often then them making.

I have a rough rule of thumb/formula that I use for telling if it is safe to make a penalty double when partner has opened 1nt. Judgment and what not is better than any formula so I'm not saying this is THE way to play, just that this formula seems to work pretty well for me. You should double if:

(your HCP + partner's MIN HCP + your cards in suit + partner's MIN cards in suit + 3 for each level above 2 - 2 if it is IMPs and we are doubling into game) > 26.

It sounds complicated, but really it is just add the points, add the suit cards (to tell if they have, at best, an 8 card fit or 9 card fit), and adjust for level and IMP/MP. In this example hand we get:

8 (your HCP) + 15 (partner's HCP) + 3 (your ♥) + 2 (partner's ♥) + 3 (they are at the 3 level) and this gives us 31 which is way above the threshold. If you think about it they can't have more than 8 cards in their fit, and they can't have more than 17 points, and they are at the 3 level, and it is MP. Sure 1 in 25 times they have the magic hand that makes double dummy, and maybe 1 in 10 times they can't make double dummy but you misdefend and they steal it. But most of the time you are going to crush them.

[Jlall]

Mbodell, on Oct 29 2009, 04:01 AM, said:

I think the above is crazy talk.  If I'm fortunate enough to have a penalty double available, I'll make it happily.  We are getting 200 or better the vast majority of the time.  I expect 500 much more often then them making.

Really depends on your RHO. If he is a random then sure I agree with you. If he is a good player then I would say he rates to have something like 8 tricks in his hand for a r/w 3H overcall. You might still get 500 if some of his tricks are like KQ of spades and you ruff them after a spade lead, but it should be very unlikely.

I would probably not double a sound good player but it's close. If RHO is an overly aggressive good player or a random I would def X for penalty if I could though.

Expecting to crush a red/white 3H overcall over a 1N opener when you have 3 small trumps is really a sign of playing against weak competition very often imo (no offense meant by this, I often play against weak opposition too lol).

Pretend you were playing against yourself, and think of what hands you might overcall 3H with at these colors. Gettin pretty scary isn't it?

[Jlall]

This is a really good lead problem too... I'm thinking the DQ is better than a spade vs good opps, but maybe I'm completely over thinking this. Just seems like RHO is so likely to have like 4-7 in the majors.

[Codo]

I would lead a spade against 3 Heart and I would not double because my hand would not fit to the describtion t/o.

[pooltuna]

Jlall, on Oct 29 2009, 04:29 AM, said:

Mbodell, on Oct 29 2009, 04:01 AM, said:

I think the above is crazy talk.  If I'm fortunate enough to have a penalty double available, I'll make it happily.  We are getting 200 or better the vast majority of the time.  I expect 500 much more often then them making.

Really depends on your RHO. If he is a random then sure I agree with you. If he is a good player then I would say he rates to have something like 8 tricks in his hand for a r/w 3H overcall. You might still get 500 if some of his tricks are like KQ of spades and you ruff them after a spade lead, but it should be very unlikely.

I would probably not double a sound good player but it's close. If RHO is an overly aggressive good player or a random I would def X for penalty if I could though.

Expecting to crush a red/white 3H overcall over a 1N opener when you have 3 small trumps is really a sign of playing against weak competition very often imo (no offense meant by this, I often play against weak opposition too lol).

Pretend you were playing against yourself, and think of what hands you might overcall 3H with at these colors. Gettin pretty scary isn't it?

at IMPS I for sure agree with this but for MP I expect even the good players to loosen up a little.